What goes on within these countries is their concern. My concern is that we don't compete with countries that employ child labour. It is an insane policy. arthur
________________________________ From: Keith Hudson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Fri 12/8/2006 3:18 PM To: Cordell, Arthur: ECOM Cc: [email protected] Subject: RE: [SPAM] Re: [Futurework] Democrats and "Free" Trade Arthur, Have you not read the case studies by Oxfam and other charities who describe what happens when child labour -- for example in India and Pakistan -- is forced out of existence by well-meaning Westerners? Far worse fates follow for many of these children and teenagers, particularly the girls. It's their only way of picking themselves up by their bootstraps -- as indeed a generation or two did in England in the late 18th century. And South Korea did only 40 years ago (and now has higher average wages than England). If you stamp out child labour in Third world countries then not only do you artificially and temporarily protect home industries but you are preventing the former getting out of the gutter. I thought this particular type of debate was over and done with years ago. Can't we move on to much more relevant concerns today? Keith Hudson At 12:15 08/12/2006 -0500, you wrote: Keith, You do what you can. What you don't do is open the borders to goods made abroad where workers' wages are a small fraction of wages at home; where environmental laws are nil or negligible; where child labour is the rule rather than the exception. The free traders are always in some sort of rush. What's the rush. We hear in Canada the constant drum beat "macht schnell", hurry up or we are going to be left behind as a third world country. It could be that by throwing open the borders, third world status will be with us sooner rather than later. Sure education/knowledge/innovation, etc., is important. Also important is social cohesion, a sense of predictability and the existence of a middle class. Rushing globalizaiton benefits the elites in society and raises wages in certain low wage countries. If globalization is so important, then we should move slowly and cautiously. Right now it seems to be a veiled attack on the trade unions in industrialized countries and the by-product is the continuing immizeration of the middle class. This can only lead to a bad outcome. arthur ________________________________ From: Keith Hudson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Fri 12/8/2006 2:25 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [email protected]; Cordell, Arthur: ECOM Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [Futurework] Democrats and "Free" Trade I was not writing of "economists' time" but of the time it takes to offer full educational opportunities to the children of any unfortunate workers who are displaced by more efficient industries or services elsewhere in order for the children to have a better chance of avoiding the same state as their parents. And it is to be remembered that more workers are displaced by efficiency in competitive industries and services at home rather than abroad. So what do you do about that? If you try to protect this situation you are in danger of doing what the USSR did for 70 years -- which has now bequeathed Russia with an increasingly impoverished, demoralised and steeply declining population with galloping Aids, hard drug addiction, TB and alcoholism. KH At 22:41 07/12/2006 -0800, you wrote: One among many problems with the neo-liberal "open markets raises all boats" theory is that while jobs are lost in real time, standards of living are increased in "economists'" time which could be short term but is usually medium or long term (or never term given that there are always exogenous factors that intervene that don't quite fit into the economists' supply curves... And of course as Keynes most famously said "in the long run... MG > Arthur, > > If the Democrats in America can't decide on free trade or otherwise, then > tough luck on them, because customers will decide for them sooner or later > by buying cheaper goods made abroad and avoiding costlier home-made goods. > > If it's sooner, then the out-of-work factory (and some service) workers > will concentrate government's mind on reforming the education of its > children. If it's later, then the factories (and some other services) will > be forever inefficient compared with those in other countries and the > general standard of living will go down. And then the factory (etc) > workers > will be out of work a litte later anyway. The general standard of living > could remain down forever from then onwards when one considers the rate of > technological change and the new skills required.) > > If a country wants to engage then its government should ensure the best > possible education for its children, outlaw protective practices in all > trades and professions (and publicise all past formal credentialising > examinations). In this way, everybody will have as interesting jobs as > they > are capable of and shorter working weeks and more leisure time will > gradually become the norm. > > Keith Hudson > > At 20:40 07/12/2006 -0500, you wrote: > >>Content-class: urn:content-classes:message >>Content-Type: multipart/alternative; >>boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C71A6A.19761E86"; >> x-avg-checked=avg-ok-4B151299 >> >>dir=ltr> >> >> >> >>---------- >>From: Strategic Forecasting, Inc. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Sent: Thu 12/7/2006 7:28 PM >>To: Subject: Stratfor Public Policy Intelligence Report >> >>468e12.jpg Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.14/578 - Release Date: 07/12/2006 snip, snip...................... Keith Hudson, Bath, England, <www.evolutionary-economics.org <http://www.evolutionary-economics.org/ <http://www.evolutionary-economics.org <http://www.evolutionary-economics.org/> > > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/579 - Release Date: 07/12/2006 Keith Hudson, Bath, England, <www.evolutionary-economics.org <http://www.evolutionary-economics.org/> >
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