On 5/17/2010 4:38 PM, Christoph Reuss wrote:
> High consumer debt is mainly a US phenomenon, and per se wouldn't require
> state debt.  Printing money at will to import stuff for free is also only
> a US phenomenon, because the USD is the world's oil currency.
>
> State debt is mainly a mechanism of re-distributing money bottom-up, from the
> middle class (tax payers) to the rich (holders of state bonds reaping the
> interests paid by taxes).  The system of state indebtment was introduced
> by&  for the Predator class, not by&  for "the masses".
>
> And why the state "must" borrow:
>
>    
>> >  bank bailouts
>>      
> That's a symptom of billions stolen by the speculators. (Note that you are
> confusing cause and effect, also in the timeline.)

Debunked already.
>   The housing bubble is
> only a US phenomenon,

false
>   but bank bailouts for hundreds of billions happened
> all over Europe too -- guess why, and where did those billions disappear?
>    

Good question. I have never supported bailouts of capitalist, for profit 
businesses. The populace pays, and many extremely overpaid execs should 
be the ones first tapped in my opinion. The pension plans of millions 
are invested in (unwisely if not bailed out) banks, insurance companies, 
and auto manufacturers to name a few. If the system let them go under 
when they did stupid things, the pensions would decline even more than 
they have WITH the bailouts. (another zero sum redistribution, and the 
poor lose even more as they have few pensions except govt ones)
>    
>
>    
>
> The key question is:  Who could easily make a big difference?
>    
Discipline re govt spending, envir protection, and controls of usury and 
fraudf (as examples) are tough when govts get corrupted which I believe 
most are.
> The billionaires could stop speculating immediately,
If a capitalist system had no specs, liquidity would dry up. Bad for any 
hedging of future agric. & mining production, shipping costs, weather 
risks etc

>   and stop charging interest
> (or only very low interest) -- they're philanthropes, after all!?
interest is set by supply/demand.  If artificially low, people borrow 
too much and create bubbles like housing or dot com (cheap margin)

>   This alone
> would be sufficient to end the crisis (and not have it caused in the first
> place)!

false see artificially low above
> But guess what, they don't stop because they want to keep making
> billions -- they just can't get enough.
>    
Some yes, it is a disease/addiction. But many are not like that in my 
opinion.

> "The masses" (outside the US, anyway) are not significantly indebted.
The UK and Canada and Australia and others are in pretty much the same 
boat as US re consumer debt.

>   What
> could they do to make a big difference (and do they have to change at all)?
> Consume less?  That would make things worse!
>    
Too many of us chasing limited stuff/energy = conflict and rape of envir.
> Can you answer these questions?
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>    
This was a one shot response. If documentation for a specific numerical 
item is desired, I'll give that a shot. I know I've seen consumer and 
housing debt stats recently

Steve
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