It has certainly disconnected the wealthy here who when confronted with issues of national identity for anyone other themselves, express themselves in terms of not caring. They are the owners of the secular common. They care about charity issues of education and health because it effects them but they have enough services and don't care whether others have it or not. The whole "faith based" thing of the Bush and Obama administrations are the conduit for both community action and cultural affairs in their eyes. That's what makes Islam such a wild card for them. It is a completely different aesthetic identity and it freaks them out because there is no secular common for everyone to meet within as Americans. That's what I've been trying to say to Keith. When England gives up its music and art, the cultural wars with the immigrants will explode as the English will see the Muslims as being unwilling to "be" English by giving up their identity as well for economic gain. I fear we are seeing the beginning of civil war in England. REH
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael Gurstein Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 6:59 PM To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION' Subject: Re: [Futurework] The English want it, too! Yes... Interesting... in the period Arthur and I are talking about that was what was seen as being lost through the structure of foreign ownership that was developing. M -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ray Harrell Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 2:24 PM To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION,EDUCATION' Subject: Re: [Futurework] The English want it, too! doesn't all of this come down to a couple of thing Mike. 1. the sense of brotherhood and relationship in Nation 2. the ability to be loyal to your fellow citizens? I consider American business to be intensely disloyal to most of the nation except for their class and that class considers itself to be International. Seems like we've been here before. REH From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael Gurstein Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 3:52 PM To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION' Subject: Re: [Futurework] The English want it, too! This isn't quite irrelevant for non-Canadians on this list since many of the things that were predicted for Canada (and by implication for anyone else pursuing an economic policy of unrestricted foreign investment) has in fact come to pass... to, what one would have hoped, the acute embarrassment of the conventional economics profession... The political and policy expression(s) of this unfortunately have been largely lost through the increasing neo-liberalization in Canada as elsewhere but worth taking a look at in light of the current situations in Canada as elsewhere. M -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Arthur Cordell Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 7:04 PM To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION,EDUCATION' Subject: Re: [Futurework] The English want it, too! Remember the Gray report? Herb Gray's report that led to the establishment of FIRA.(foreign investment review agency) I did most of the R and D material for that report. For everyone else on this list, this is inside baseball or, rather, inside Ottawa so you can disregard. So, yes, I think that foreign ownership carries with it costs.while it brings some benefits. arthur From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael Gurstein Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 1:57 PM To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION' Subject: Re: [Futurework] The English want it, too! Arthur, It's interesting to see you agreeing with the Waffle <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Waffle> 's critique of Canadian (Liberal party and union-based) economic policy of the late 60's to early 70's when a lot of this was playing out... M -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Arthur Cordell Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 6:26 AM To: 'Keith Hudson'; 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION,EDUCATION' Subject: Re: [Futurework] The English want it, too! .... Canada also welcomed foreign ownership with many branch plants of mainly US firms operating here. And lots of economic activity was generated in this way. It led to an outcome that the numbers alone don't show: A branch plant economy has less R and D, less innovation, less of a local managerial class (and less contributions to the arts, less concern for local civic matters, etc., and so govt plays a larger role in this area). Managing the French English division has been tricky over the years and trade offs have been made to keep the country together. The relatively recent presence of non-European immigration in large numbers also changes things. The second language in some parts of Canada is not French but is one of the languages of India or China or Viet Nam, etc. And so Canada has embraced multi-culturalism. So nation building and maintenance is a dynamic concept and over time it may be as you suggest there will be a devolution with many new groupings formed along with many new parliaments. Would such an outcome be "good" or "bad?" Arthur From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Keith Hudson Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 4:35 AM To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, , EDUCATION Subject: [Futurework] The English want it, too! It is piquant to observe that the country which houses the Commissioners of a 'United' Europe is itself dividing into two halves. The decades-old cultural division between a dynamic, secession-seeking Dutch-speaking Flanders in the north of Belgium and an economically lagging French-speaking Wallonia in the south is now growing so wide that Belgians have been unable to form a government for the past eight months, only a caretaker committee. Already downgraded for this reason by Standard & Poor from AAA credit status to AA+ (a euphemism if there ever was one!), it is going to be downgraded further unless they buck themselves up in the next six months. Under this threat they'll probably manage to for the time being, but when the super nation-state of the European Union itself starts breaks up not too long hence, Belgium will follow pretty quickly one imagines. (And what about Spain, too, with its Basque and Catalan would-be separatists? And other European counties with strong devolution tendencies? And, now that the UK has hived-off Scotland and Wales, increasing numbers of English people now want their own Parliament!) Keith P.S. And I can envisage America dividing into an English-speaking and Spanish-speaking halves in due course. And has Canada quite solved its own problem? Keith Hudson, Saltford, England http://allisstatus.wordpress.com/2010/12/
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