If the problem is debt then the problem is interest. If you only pay for what you buy, there is not interest i.e. no banking, no modern economy, etc. If the government is like a household and the Libertarians and Teaparty uses that metaphor then they obviously are against modern banking practices and place the blame not on the bank but on the person uses the bank or borrows. I came out of a family of accountants on my mother's side that would not pay interest and whose sentiments are very similar. They also weren't very good at capital. But they worked for salaries and were very frugal. But not entrepreneurs and could never make a living as I have, in the performing arts. They certainly didn't believe in usury and refused to use it.
Where are you on this? REH From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Arthur Cordell Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 10:33 AM To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION' Subject: Re: [Futurework] Bonds uber alles ?? Why do you say this? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ray Harrell Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 10:20 PM To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION' Subject: Re: [Futurework] Bonds uber alles ?? Arthur are you advocating a return to the laws of usury? REH From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Arthur Cordell Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 2:38 PM To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION'; 'Keith Hudson' Subject: Re: [Futurework] Bonds uber alles ?? And so one can begin to understand the knee jerk reaction of the Tea Party. If elected officials at all levels are guilty of misfeasance or malfeasance re: debt, then the answer is to balance the books and control government spending and in the extreme control and/or downsize government. arthur From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of michael gurstein Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 1:27 PM To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION'; 'Keith Hudson' Subject: Re: [Futurework] Bonds uber alles ?? I think in retrospect the major point of failure of the Obama government will be that he failed to prosecute the quite evident fraud on the part of various banks and Wall Street houses. The issue with a lot of municipalities (and I believe states and even States a la Greece) was that a combination of direct stupidity, fraud and influence peddling led to unsustainable (and frequently unwarranted) borrowing on the part of governments to the enrichment of those handling the loans including mortgages and muni's such as this below. That Obama didn't prosecute has meant that, as below, or in the rather more well known case in Alabama the various courts and political officials and bond holders etc. have accepted the situation as somehow normal and not aberrant or criminal and from there the pace of the very unequal struggle between finance capital and everyone else has nothing else to do but play out to the long term destruction of all. M -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Arthur Cordell Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 10:13 AM To: 'Keith Hudson'; 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION,EDUCATION' Subject: Re: [Futurework] Bonds uber alles ?? As I read the whole article it seems to be happening in various parts of the US. This sort of thing is a "game changer" and can only further deepen the distrust between citizen and governments. This mirrors the situation at the national level and yes it is true that govts should consult citizens before going into debt. With situations like this it is doubtful that citizens will agree to more debt by govt even if its for "good" causes like infrastructure...esp if this debt might affect a range future obligations, including pensions. arthur From: Keith Hudson [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 12:22 PM To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION; Arthur Cordell Subject: Re: [Futurework] Bonds uber alles ?? Arthur, Unfortunately for the pensioners of Central Falls, people who buy bonds won't do so unless the loans are treated as senior debt. If they had to take turns, they might find themselves at the back of the queue or, like the pensioners, receive only a proportion of what they were due. The moral of the story is that the Council of Central Falls should not have gone into debt in the first place. If they had wanted to raise extra money for a specific purpose then they should have put the matter in the hands of their electorate beforehand -- Were they prepared to be taxed more? Keith At 15:55 13/08/2011, you wrote: Subject: Faltering Rhode Island City Tests Vows to Pensioners Bonds uber alles. ============================ http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/13/us/13bankruptcy.html?_r=1 <http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/13/us/13bankruptcy.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadli n> &nl=todaysheadlin es&emc=tha23 Faltering Rhode Island City Tests Vows to Pensioners When the small, beleaguered city of Central Falls, R.I., filed for bankruptcy this month, it sought to cut the pension checks it has been sending its retired police officers, firefighters and other workers by as much as half. All the city promises now is that its retirees, many of whom do not get Social Security, will not have their benefits cut to less than $10,000 a year. But investors who bought the city's bonds could do much better: Rhode Island recently passed a law intended to make sure that they would be paid in full, even in bankruptcy. Retirees are wondering how the city can cut what they believed was a guaranteed benefit. "We put our time in, we put our money in," said Walter Trembley, 74, a retired Central Falls police officer. "And the city, through their callousness and everything else, just blew it. They were supposed to put money in and they didn't." Cities and local governments make lots of promises: to their citizens, workers, vendors and investors. But when the money starts to run out, as it has in Central Falls, some promises prove more binding than others. Bond lawyers have known for decades that it is possible, at least in theory, to put bondholders ahead of pensioners, but no one wanted to try it and risk a backlash on Election Day. Now the poor, taxed-out city of Central Falls is mounting a test case, which other struggling governments may follow if it succeeds. Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [email protected] https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework Keith Hudson, Saltford, England http://allisstatus.wordpress.com/2011/08/
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