Hi Ray,
At 15:02 23/01/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Keith you said:
>
>> I have obviously not yet persuaded you that all work has an exchange
>> context. This work may be anywhere on a continuum from individual,
>> conscious, material and immediate exchange (e.g. money or tangibilities)
>> through to communal, unconscious, non-material and postponed reward (e.g.
>> helpful services).
>
(RH)
>Do you mean that solo effort with no community or family is not work?
>That "work" is a concept that only has to do with more than one individual?
That's precisely what I do mean.
(RH)
>Is not this the logic that defines what mothers, housewives, priests,
>artists etc. do, not as work or at least as "valuable" work?
But, Ray, all these examples you've cited most certainly have a social
context. Of course all their activities are work. And valuable work, too,
in many instances.
Let me try and find an example of activity that appears to be work, but
isn't. What about someone who writes an enormously long book, and then
makes no attempt to publish it. It may be discovered after death (and
published) or it may be irretrievably lost. This work certainly had no
social context. This would be in the same category as private thought, even
though written down. The book has only been a hobby. It's as likely to be
total rubbish as a great work.
As to the rest of your message, I have only been able to read it hastily
and haven't understood you yet and must re-read it. I'm aware of Ayn Rand
and that she has had a lot of influence in America, but I haven't read her
yet. I must do so. (As you say, Greenspan is supposed to have been a fan of
hers. I wish he had read Hayek, too, and then he'd understand what banking
is really all about -- and not about the artificial fixing of interest
rates by the State. So far, Greenspan has been lucky (little better than
tossing a coin -- like many business people's lucky decisions) but I think
he's about to become unstuck! He's not going to manoeuvre himself out of
the looming recession.)
Best wishes,
Keith
>
>Many years ago I was enamored of both Christianity and Ayn Rand (Greenspan's
>old mentor). The concepts seemed to be linear time bound. But maybe I
>should send a post that I wrote to Ed that seemed to complicated and
>overblown to send. Basically the issue seems one of emphasis or accent
>in the sense of diction.
>
>There are many things that would cause a system to collapse. For example,
>many years ago I tried working with a salt water aquarium. All of the
>commercial salt mixes that I used had the unfortunate effect of killing the
>fish or better, not sustaining the fish. When a Clown Tomato cost at the
>time around thirty dollars you can imagine what it was like to set up the
>system as recommended and put three Clown Tomato fish and a couple of others
>in only to watch them die in front of my eyes. It was like burning cash
>for fun. I immediately removed the tank and converted to the fresh water
>fish that didn't die so easily. While breaking down the salt water tank I
>used my bare hands to empty the aquarium and got a case of Mico-bacterium
>Marinum through a small cut on the surface of my skin so not only did the
>fish die but I had saltwater TB that took a year and a lot of money to cure.
>Later it was found that the commercial salt mixes had left out the minute
>trace minerals from the mix. Obviously they got the big points right but
>the difference between life and death and my cash reserve was in the little
>things. The reverse would also have been true if they hadn't gotten the
>big things right. But the only issue is whether it worked or not and it
>didn't. And the big things were not enough.
>
>To say that everything is negotiation is probably true but it would be more
>accurate to say that everything having to do with groups demands
>communication and that money is one of the ways in which that happens. To
>say that it is selfish has to be different from the evil of self-serving at
>the expense of others. That is a big distinction in my mind. That
>morality was explored in the Torah in the use of the concept of Usury. It
>was also big in the church up until the Industrial Era at which point sex
>seemed to take precidence over theft as the great "original sin." Today
>we mix the use of the word selfish up to the point at where it has little
>meaning except to cloud the issue being discussed as Ayn Rand was so good at
>doing. Primary Colors, like the salt water mix, are true but incomplete.
>That is what is wrong, in my mind, with the concept of Creative Greed or
>Ultimate Selfishness. It just ain't subtle enough to do what it claims.
>
>Finally the issue of long term jobs. That is something that has to do
>with the importance of the little things to the systems of communication
>that make groups possible. In my mind, no job is permanent but is the job
>permanent enough to support the life that you imagine for yourself? In
>Capitalist Societies you have to kill the modern art in order to make the
>small consumer base available to traditional arts. I don't see how
>Capitalist Society, without a competitive enemy like the old Soviet Union,
>can develop a viable artistic base at all. The areas of traditional,
>commercial and theoretical (Fine Arts) demand too much from such short term
>retail economic ideas. Indeed in our discussion in the past on this your
>have simply "killed off" the modern art in favor of expanding the market for
>your product. The ideas may be right in the big sense but the little
>things "killl the present fish." And if the "fish" die the system is a
>killer.
>
>Societies like the Scandinavian cultures where artists are supported based
>upon education have their problems as well but basic needs is not one of
>them. From such relatively small societies you also get a large number of
>world class artistic thinkers who do it for the inherent value of the art
>itself with money being secondary except at the very high end where the
>scarcity creates a capital situation. I guess it all amounts to why you
>feel that you deserve to take up the space in your culture that you do.
>The Danes I know have a high degree of curiousity and use their money to
>expand their and their family's contribution to the well being of the group.
>They are very Democratic as opposed to the society here where we call
>Democracy Sacred but too dumb to do anything other than run a poorly run
>military. We have a President now involved with taking the education of
>the young out of the hands of the community and putting in the hands of an
>elite group of wealthy folks including Christian educators who have their
>own agenda.
>
>Must go to work. Just a few thoughts. Hope it wasn't too scattered to
>make sense.
>
>Regards
>
>Ray Evans Harrell, artistic director
>The Magic Circle Opera Repertory Ensemble, Inc.
>
>
>
>
___________________________________________________________________
Keith Hudson, General Editor, Calus <http://www.calus.org>
6 Upper Camden Place, Bath BA1 5HX, England
Tel: +44 1225 312622; Fax: +44 1225 447727;
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