Sorry Gail,
 
The context of that is my fight, since conducting lead and zinc miners on the Indian Reservation from the age of 14, to understand that music is real work.    This is a constant fight and having just passed sixty, I'm getting discouraged.   
 
Music is work just like any other and it is as necessary for life as is eating or knowing how to swim in a flood.   You caught the brunt of that and for that I apologize.    Music and the Arts should recieve the same stimulus from the community that all work recieves.    We should ask what kind of world we want to live in and what environment our children should have available to them.    That was what I meant in the post that I wrote before the one where I was abrupt.   I certainly enjoy your conversations including the current one.   Perhaps we might say the Entertainment is to Music and Art as Employment is to work.    But without money we don't have time to do Music and Art and if we only do sitcoms for products on TV we don't do Art.   Garbage in, garbage out.   
 
I long for a conversation where we can discuss how to get those Chamber Opera Companies up and working in every city in North America of 100,000 people are more.    The Arts in NYCity are a 14 Billion dollar business.    9/11 cut into the Arts and the whole city has suffered as the people in the businesses that service the Arts lose their way as well.   We simply have to realize that Tourism and the Arts is not the poor cousin to a factory or a speculative bank.    The Wall Street Journal considers the Arts to be an area where they write criticisms, not stimulate business, in fact they depress the business.   It is a depressing world and when I encounter what feels like that old lead and zinc miner hierarchy it makes me seriously depressed at this age.   So forgive my rudeness but I really do need help with this.   
 
Thank you
 
Ray Evans Harrell, artistic director
The Magic Circle Opera Repertory Ensemble, Inc.
 
----- Original Message -----
From: G. Stewart
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: Work and the economy

Hi Ray,
 
This is interesting. You have surprised me. I had not expected you to be annoyed by my perspective on artists as engaged in the activity of pursuing personally responsible self-defining self-expressive work, and doing so even when support and understanding in the larger community might be lacking. This is not to deny that, within narrower parameters, there are forms of art that follow and interpret established disciplines, but who is to say that the solo self-defining artist may not be pioneering a new discipline? As in law, it is the extraordinary cases that establish the boundaries. But never mind.
 
The issue can be recast: are we willing to guarantee income to people the "worth" of whose activities we may not understand, or approve, but don't seek to judge provided we are not actively harmed by them? I am reminded of a question that I heard someone once ask, in all seriousness, "Of what worth is a giraffe?"
 
What interests me more in your post though is the "am I wasting my time?"  I don't think the purpose of our discourse here is to persuade each other so much as it is "to compare mythologies" and be illuminated by each others' perspectives.  I have frequently been illuminated by yours.
 
Best regards,
 
Gail
 
 
Gail Stewart
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: Work and the economy

Gail,
 
I object, once more, to your catagory of Artists.   Am I wasting my time here?
 
REH
----- Original Message -----
From: G. Stewart
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: Work and the economy

Charles,
 
Two comments in response to your interesting posting.
 
1. You wrote: "I suspect that many of those who have not entered the conversation have stayed silent because they believe this is just a rather meaningless word game.  Gail to some extent perpetuates this view by talking about voluntary work as different from employment, and Keith talks about working for himself as different from employment.  I guess these are differences, but they are not what I am getting at (at least not necessarily)."
 
You seem uncertain about distinguishing these from employment. Could you elucidate, especially with respect to voluntary action? (I was of course not talking about volunteering which is often coerced, e.g. students and CEO's needed it for their resumes, young offenders being sentenced to do so many hours of community services, churches and other institutions making it almost a condition of membership, and even friends (or Presidents) putting moral suasion on people to "volunteer." This of course is not what I meant by voluntary action.) Do you not see it, and entrepreneuring, as sufficiently different from employment as to meet your criteria for "work?" 
 
2. I am intrigued by your "peroration:"
 
"For me, the alternatives will involve a much more vibrant local community (by which I mean the network of people and resources close to us) than currently exists - mostly because nationals systems simply can't measure let alone control needs and wants at the local level. In my future for work, everybody has at least one community with which they can identify and within which they can sustain themselves.  There will still be plenty of people who interact within many communities and many of the current economic systems will continue to very very useful in facilitating this interaction.  But they will be meaningless at the local community level which is where sustainable strength will be based."
 
In my terms you are speaking about "meaningful work" in which the work is meaningful both to the person involved and to the community for which it is done, i.e. doubly meaningful, what we could perhaps call "work-in community" done by "persons in community." (MacMurray). Pressing you a little, do you think something can be called "work" that is meaningful only to the person involved independent of what others may think of it? Self-defined work? In short, is work necessarily a social concept or can it be a personal concept, even perhaps in defiance of community? Who decides what is "work?" To make this practical, my interest has been in public policy. The question has relevance for taxation policy (personal income tax, policies for foundations that give grants, guaranteed basic income), policies toward education and support for people who say they want to be students or artists,.. and so on. Where does individualism meet community in your definition of work?
 
These are issues on which I would hope this FW list might not only enter into discourse but perhaps even develop and spin off some public policy proposals....
 
Regards,
 
Gail 
 
 
Gail Stewart
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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