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Selma,
Your
welcome. My church, too, has those problems. As a Catholic - sort of
- I am continually battling over women priests, etc. But then I look at
Wisconsin Synod of the Lutherans who kicked a congregation out of the synod for
daring to let a women chair a committee in the congregation.
Bruce
Thanks, Bruce,
I appreciate your support. It is a sad thing to
see the writing of men who otherwise seem to be intelligent but, for whatever
reasons, simply must find ways to maintain the myths of male superiority. It
is interesting, too, to see the way their arguments are clothed in all those
specious assertions of men and women being 'just different', and then on and
on about how women are really superior as long as they remain the power
'behind' the throne.
It brings to mind an experience I had as a young
woman. My husband and I were members of a conservative Jewish Temple mainly
because our five children seemed to want some kind of religious identity and
we figured ours was no worse than any of the others. So I became acquainted
with the current Rabbi who was somewhat enlightened in some matters of the
world and was fun to talk to about a lot of things. I asked him, at one point,
how he could justify the prayer that Jewish men were enjoined to say every day
thanking god for not making them a woman. He explained, in the same way I hear
these explanations on this list, that women and men were 'just different' and
that the work women did, i.e., staying at home with the kids, was very
important but did not allow for the interruptions that would necessitate
praying twice a day at specified times, etc. But, of course, this didn't mean
that women weren't equal to men.
Try pointing out to someone with that kind of
reasoning that I would like my daughters to be able to think about having the
same opportunities to develop their potentialities as person as my sone would
have. 'Just different'; just different enough to justify the continuation of
male privilege as long as possible.
Selma
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 4:27
PM
Subject: RE: Fw: Women, men and
stress
Selma,
You go girl!
I'm glad you said it before this 60 year old dude.
Bruce
Hi Harry,
I just find it very sad that you, and others
like you, cannot see women as adult persons just as capable of taking care
of themselves as are the males of the species. I could present you with
all the sociological arguments that show that the reason you take care of
the woman first has nothing at all to do with biology and everything to do
with culture and the socialization process but I doubt it would impress
you.
However, it is attitudes like yours that make
it so very difficult for women to be treated equally in the professions
that have been unfairly dominated by men for centuries and that will
continue to be dominated as long as you persist in holding on to your
antiquated ideas which, however, serve the purpose of sustaining
patriarchy, unless we can somehow force you to forego a few more of your
privieges.It is also very sad to see what pride you take in the myth that
you are stronger and superior to the helpless females you have to
protect.
It might be of interest to you to know that I
am an 'oldie'. I'll be 74 years old in a couple of months. I try not to
let my age get in the way of seeing as clearly as I can.
With best regards,
Selma
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 4:27
PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Women, men and
stress
Selma,
Thanks - very
interesting.
One of the arguments against women in combat is that
the men would needlessly place themselves in danger trying to protect
the women. Maybe that's changing somewhat with modern men, but it would
be true with an oldie like myself.
I recall being in a bombed
building when I was 16 or 17. A man and a women were in bed mixed into
the springs of their bed (I'll leave that to imagination. Every male in
the Rescue Squad immediately went for the women to get her out first
(you never know when the lot is going to come down on you).
We
got them both out - I hope to survive. But, the woman came first without
a thought. This might be called instinctive, but I suspect that it's
natural selection. The tribe that didn't care about its women had less
chance of surviving than the tribe that cared for
them.
I suspect that natural selection is
responsible for some, or all, the traits that Keith has
noted.
Harry
--------------------------------------------------------
Selma
wrote:
I thought this might be of
some interest in light of recent conversations
about biological
differences between women and men.
Selma
Sent:
Monday, April 08, 2002 11:40 PM
Subject: Women, men and
stress
> UCLA Researchers Identify Key Biobebavioral
Pattern Used By Women to
> Manage Stress
>
> http://www.college.ucla.edu/stress.htm
>
Undated but from late 2001.
>
> Researchers at UCLA have
identified a broad biological and behavioral
> pattern that
explains a key method used by women to cope with stress - and
>
at the same time highlights one of the most basic differences
between
> men's and women's behavior.
>
> This
pattern, referred to by UCLA principal investigator Shelley E.
Taylor
> as "tend and befriend," shows that females of many
species, including
> humans, respond to stressful conditions by
protecting and nurturing their
> young (the "tend" response),
and by seeking social contact and support
> from others -
especially other females (the "befriend" response).
>
>
This "tend-and-befriend" pattern is a sharp contrast to the
>
"fight-or-flight" behavior that has long been considered the
principal
> method for coping with stress by both men and
women.
>
> "For decades, psychological research maintained
that both men and women
> rely on fight or flight to cope with
stress - meaning that when confronted
> by stress, individuals
either react with aggressive behavior, such as
> verbal conflict
and more drastic actions, or withdraw from the stressful
>
situation," said Taylor.
>
> "We found that men often
react to stress with a fight-or-flight response,"
> Taylor said,
"but women are more likely to manage their stress with a
>
tend-and-befriend response by nurturing their children or seeking
social
> contact, especially with other women."
>
>
The UCLA study, which will be published in an upcoming issue of
the
> Psychological Review of the American Psychological
Association, based its
> findings on analysis of hundreds of
biological and behavioral studies of
> response to stress by
thousands of humans and animal subjects.
>
> "The
tend-and-befriend method of coping with stress seems to be
>
characteristic of females in many species," Taylor
said.
>
> Just as the fight-or-flight response is based on
biological changes that
> occur in response to stress, the UCLA
researchers propose that the
> tend-and-befriend pattern may
have a biological basis. In particular, the
> research team
points to the hormone oxytocin as playing a large role in
> the
tend-and-befriend response, in conjunction with sex hormones and
the
> body's natural opioid system.
>
> "Oxytocin
has been studied largely for its role in childbirth, but it is
>
also secreted in both men and women as a response to stress," she
said.
> "Animals and people with high levels of oxytocin are
calmer, more relaxed,
> more social and less anxious. In several
animal species, oxytocin leads to
> maternal behavior and to
affiliation.
>
> "Men secrete oxytocin too, but the
effects of oxytocin seem to be reduced
> by male hormones, so
oxytocin may have reduced effects on men's physiology
> and
behavior under stress. Oxytocin, along with other stress hormones,
may
> play a key factor in reducing females' response to
stress."
>
> The UCLA study also found that women are far
more likely than men to
> "befriend" in response to stress -
seeking social contact when they are
> feeling stressed, with
befriending methods ranging from talking on the
> phone with
relatives or friends, to such simple social contacts as asking
>
for directions when lost.
>
> "This difference in seeking
social support during stressful periods is the
> principal way
men and women differ in their response to stress, and one of
>
the most basic differences in men's and women's behavior," Taylor
said.
>
> The different ways that men and women respond to
stress may also help
> researchers understand why men are more
vulnerable to the adverse health
> effects of stress, according
to Taylor.
>
> "Men are more likely than women to respond
to stressful experiences by
> developing certain stress-related
disorders, including hypertension,
> aggressive behavior, or
abuse of alcohol or hard drugs," Taylor said.
> "Because the
tend-and-befriend regulatory system may, in some ways,
> protect
women against stress, this biobehavioral pattern may provide
>
insights into why women live an average of seven and a half years
longer
> than men."
>
> "The tend-and-befriend
pattern exhibited by women probably evolved through
> natural
selection," Taylor said. "Thousands of generations ago, fleeing
or
> fighting in stressful situations was not a good option for
a female who
> was pregnant or taking care of offspring, and
women who developed and
> maintained social alliances were
better able to care for multiple
> offspring in stressful
times.
>
> The "tending" pattern is especially apparent in
research conducted by UCLA
> psychologist Rena Repetti, who, in
one of the studies analyzed in Taylor's
> research, examined the
differences between fathers' and mothers' behaviors
> with their
children after a stressful workday.
>
> "When the typical
father in the study came home after a stressful day at
> work,
he responded to stress by wanting to be left alone, enjoying
peace
> and quiet away from the stress of the office; when
office-related stress
> was particularly acute, a typical
response would be to react harshly or
> create conflict with his
wife or children," Taylor said. "When the typical
> mother in
the study came home from work bearing stress, she was more
>
likely to cope with her bad day by focusing her attention on nurturing
her
> children.
>
> How did biobehavioral
differences in how men and women cope with stress
> elude
researchers until now?
>
> "Until five years ago, many
research studies on stress focused on males -
> either male
rodents or human male participants in the laboratory," Taylor
>
said. "Women were largely excluded in stress research because
many
> researchers believed that monthly fluctuations in
hormones created stress
> responses that varied too widely to be
considered statistically valid.
>
> "But since 1995, when
the federal government mandated broad representation
> of both
men and women in agency-funded medically-relevant research
grants,
> the number of women represented in stress studies has
increased
> substantially. Researchers are now beginning to
realize that men and women
> use different coping mechanisms
when dealing with stress."
>
> "This is the first effort
to identify a new stress regulatory system since
> the 1950s,
and we are very excited about its ability to explain
>
stress-related behavior that has not fit in traditional approaches
to
> studying stress," Taylor said. "For example, people under
stress,
> especially women, often seek social support from
others, but until now, we
> haven't understood why or what the
biological effects of support are. We
> are much closer
now."
>
> In addition to Taylor, the research team
includes former UCLA
> post-doctoral scholars Laura Cousino
Klein (now an assistant professor of
> biobehavioral health at
Penn State University), Brian P. Lewis (now an
> assistant
professor at Syracuse), and Regan A.R. Gurung, (now an
assistant
> professor at the University of Wisconsin/Green Bay);
and UCLA graduate
> students Tara L. Gruenewald and John A.
Updegraff.
>
>
>
******************************
Harry Pollard
Henry George School of LA
Box 655
Tujunga CA 91042
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: (818) 352-4141
Fax: (818) 353-2242
*******************************
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