Wrote this early morning on the way to jury duty
but forgot to punch send. Nothing much seems to have changed so I
will send it anyway. Except the God and Country theme of "America
the Beautiful because we need you" theme. I agree you need us but so
do I need most of the people who are not nice people. I still think
about that van carrying those 15 women and children. We should
declare the vendetta paid for the 3,000 and the cost to the American economy for
9/11 and remove ourselves.
REH
This morning:
Lawry,
I don't believe it is up to your standards of
thought not to "give" Harry that he would know whether what you say he
wrote is what he meant;. Doesn't this, at the core,
prove that writing is often a thoroughly inadaquate system foisted off on the
public by people who gain political advantage by its
inadaquacies? In such cases doesn't it more resemble
debate than communication?
I admire your mind and your
knowledge. Forgive me if I put that a bit rawly but
I'm serving jury duty in the middle of a criminal war by my
own neighbors (America). It has made me take all of
this linguistic little things very seriously. Focus
groups say "don't change the behavior, change the way you talk about
it." What is their intent? The
American term for providing food & water to the people you cut it off from
is "Humanitarian Aid." When, if we had any
humanity about it we would have never cut off the water in the middle of a
desert. Are those who propose to fix a problem over the protests of
the "problemed" not responsible for doing better then that which they
replaced? If the turn around time for water is three days
before children start dieing then would you need something better than
"Humantiarian Aid" in a city of over a million people? This is
where I am today. I think of Tulsa spread out on the dry
prairie in the 1930s and that was only 500,000 people. America
didn't do any better than Sadaam at helping the Okies who were turned back from
the gates of California by the local State Troopers. that was
another Republican President, now renovated and given a "think tank" at Stanford
(Hoover Institute). What will happen to this one?
As for Harry and his writing, I write with
the accent of my speech. Even I have to read it aloud at times
to get the meaning. I know you all sometimes skip my posts because
they resemble some female Hindu scientist seeing too much and writing it all
down in English. But if I write with correct literary form (no
passive forms or contorted negatives) much of the intent inherent in the
tone is lost. As the English legal system points out they
are perfectly at home with telling only part of the story and calling it "the
whole truth and nothing but the truth." In economic
terms, I give up too much quality for productivity when I use the banal
tools of modern English writing.
Harry writes like he would accept the banal
format but I don't think he does. I think, at heart, he is just as
subtle and deep as you or I. In short I believe that means
that we can criticize his writing when it doesn't communicate what he meant
but not the intent. Only he knows the intent and what he meant to
write. He on the other hand has the responsibility for
setting "context" so we will be able to understand more than just the
primary colors of his writing. Karen has helped me see both
Harry and Keith by providing a way around the limitations of my mind
in thinking on their writings. Without "benefit of
the doubt" on the reader's part and a serious committment to context on
the part of the writer followed by clarification not much gets
done. I find that I could get a lot more done if I would make
all of the above into questions but then I wouldn't feel as
strong. Got to work on that little bit of therapy myself.
Got to go to Jury duty.
REH
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence DeBivort" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 2:40 AM
Subject: RE: [Futurework] FWD: An Outrage, An
Obscenity
> way that misrepresents your thoughts.
>
> But here, word for word and without omissions, is the text of your email re.
> the 'shrapnel on the market' issue. I think you must concede that it needed
> no cobbling on my part, but we'll let readers decide for themselves:
>
> Harry said:
> "> The market explosion was either a mistake, or an Iraq missile
> > coming down.
> > In a contested air raid, on the street one is in danger from shrapnel and
> > failed missiles. (I recall how with another 16 year old, we stood at the
> > street entrance of our Air Raid Headquarters 'harmonizing' like imaginary
> > Inkspots, or Mills Brothers, when something came howling down. We
> > collided
> > two floors down, our hair standing on end.)
> >
> > It was shrapnel. We soon learned to recognize it.
> >
> > During an air raid a lot of stuff comes down from the sky. I rather think
> > that is what hit the market."
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Harry Pollard
> > Sent: Mon, March 31, 2003 7:27 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: [Futurework] FWD: An Outrage, An Obscenity
> >
> >
> > Lawry,
> >
> > You should try to stop yourself taking different aspects of a
> > post and link
> > them together as that makes them mean something.
> >
> > I pointed out that all the stuff that is shot into the air comes down
> > somewhere. I didn't suggest that the market place disaster was caused by
> > shrapnel. It may have been caused by a ground to air missile that didn't
> > explode in the air. I didn't see any large hole at the market. An errant
> > bomb would surely have caused a large crater. Didn't seem to be there.
> >
> > Fisk says it was two missiles from a jet. I have no idea how he
> > knows - but
> > he writes with the authority of certainty so perhaps he's right.
> >
> > I was relating the wild reports of lives lost by the hundreds to three
> > coffins in a street crowded with people. In fact, the crowds of people in
> > the streets along with the street markets apparently doing business seems
> > to me to be an indication of a populace that doesn't believe American
> > bombers are indiscriminately bombing.
> >
> > If the bombing was killing hundreds of people, don't you think the
> > Saddamites would have lined them along the street, while the cameras
> > lovingly focused on every body?
> >
> > You then bring in something that happened after my post. A loss of 58
> > people and you try to relate it to my discussion of shrapnel.
> > Shame on you!
> >
> > I don't think I related my mild experience with Hitler's bombs to
> > civilians
> > in Baghdad. Rather, I said that we received nothing like the
> > Germans got. I
> > also mentioned the palpable feeling of sympathy for the Germans as we
> > watched and heard the 1,000 bomber raids on their way to Germany.
> > I suppose
> > the comment of the average Briton would have been "Poor sods!"
> >
> > I mentioned that the morning London body count was likely to be in the
> > range of 400. However, the major casualties were in the dock areas which
> > were a sea of flame with firefighters struggling hopelessly as more bombs
> > came down on them.
> >
> > Later the German airmen were as scared as the people on the ground. They
> > would simply unload a string of bombs, then head for home - without
> > particularly aiming at anything. We could actually guess where
> > the next one
> > would land and try to be somewhere else.
> >
> > However, compare this with hundreds of Tomahawks, maybe thousands
> > of bombs
> > including 'bunker busters' with explosives unknown back in the forties.
> >
> > The result? - Three coffins and a mob filling a Baghdad street. I also
> > mentioned the Red Cross report of 200 injured, also the Iraqi report of
> > three dead and 200 injured. It seems to me that 58 dead reported
> > by Iraq is
> > a more likely result of an errant bomb. But, I must confess that
> > I wondered
> > whether it might have been a Saddamite effort. However, we just
> > don't know.
> > I assume it was one of ours.
> >
> > I've been wondering why they keep pounding away at Baghdad. Surely, it's
> > been bashed enough? But, apparently they have been targeting missile
> > batteries and have wiped them out allowing medium level bombers to be put
> > to use. (Except, strangely, many missile batteries around
> > northern Baghdad
> > which the Iraqi haven't used.) This makes misses more likely, I
> > would think
> > - particularly if the missiles are sited in residential neighborhoods.
> >
> > I gave the reasons why it could have been American missiles, before you
> > made your remarks about American missiles, so I won't repeat
> > them. I would
> > say that the miracle is that so few civilian deaths are taking place -
> > considering the weight of explosive that is raining down.
> >
> > I was lucky in WWII. When eventually I was in embarkation camp,
> > Gwen had a
> > baby and I was given 48 hours leave. When I got back, my unit had
> > left for
> > Singapore. After messing around for two or three weeks, I was posted to
> > Newquay on the coast of Cornwall in the west country - about as nice a
> > place as one could be.
> >
> > Then there was this US President who dropped a couple of horrible
> > bombs and
> > stopped the war - so I never left England. As anyone who has been in the
> > military, or in a war, one never knows what will happen and luck is the
> > determinant of your service career.
> >
> > I wonder, as did Ed, won't anyone say something nice about the Americans?
> >
> > Harry
> > ----------------------------------
> >
> > Lawrence wrote:
> >
> > >Shrapnel just happens to 'come down' and kill 58 people? I'm
> > not sure what
> > >war you are following, Harry.
> > >
> > >Both Saudi Arabia and Turkey have been hit by US cruise missiles aimed at
> > >Iraq. Can you really not conceive that a cruise missile may have hit a
> > >market in Baghdad, given that sort of accuracy?
> > >
> > >You see a picture of three coffins in Iraq and conclude from that that
> > >casualties are light. You see a picture of the market and
> > conclude that it
> > >must have been done 'shrapnel'.
> > >
> > >Can you not conceive that war is nasty business (despite your
> > own survival
> > >of WWII), and that maybe US policies and actions are
> > questionable? Though I
> > >AM intrigued by your comparing yourself as a young boy facing
> > the weaponry
> > >of Hitler, to civilians in Baghdad facing the weaponry of the US.....
> > >
> > >Cheers,
> > >Lawry
> >
> >
> >
> > ******************************
> > Harry Pollard
> > Henry George School of LA
> > Box 655
> > Tujunga CA 91042
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Tel: (818) 352-4141
> > Fax: (818) 353-2242
> > *******************************
> >
> >
>
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