fyi, Harry, I do shop at Walmart--from time to time.  I sometime like the
anonymity of the place.

And, yes, I am a "law and order" sort of person and thus zoning seems a good
idea.

arhtu

-----Original Message-----
From: Harry Pollard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 12:14 PM
To: Ray Evans Harrell; Cordell, Arthur: ECOM;
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Futurework] Fruits of Work.


Ray,

Respect and mutual responsibility means that where you cannot avoid 
interference you step back rather than intrude. If an appreciable number of 
people want to get a morning coffee from Starbucks, I think they should be 
allowed to get it.

I have never bought a coffee from Starbucks. Should I be allowed to stop 
others from buying one?

We don't have a Starbucks in Tujunga - though we've just had a McDonald's 
open up (which may mean we are now part of the civilized world.

We do have a drive-in coffee shop about 2 miles away. When it opened, I 
wondered how long it would last - a drive-in just for coffee? That was 5 
years ago. It's still there. When my San Diego kids visit, on Sunday 
morning one drives down to get coffees. It comes back in a large plastic 
cup. It has to be hot in order to be drinkable when it arrives home. (Don't 
hold it between your knees.)

In the grey climate of small English council houses (low-cost government 
housing) a lady painted her doorstep red - this was back in the fifties 
before Thatcher freed the houses into the hands of their tenants.

The local council met to discuss this overwhelmingly important matter. 
After all, if one person did it, perhaps others would paint their doorsteps 
- maybe purple, pink, or puce. The chaste grey of the neighborhood would be 
gone.

The lady was ordered to return her doorstep to grey, and the community 
breathed easier again. (The council were petty upstart snots.)

I cannot imagine you, Ray. taking the side of the council against this lone 
butterfly spreading her wings. Yet, there may be people living in the 
community who don't like red. Should they step back rather than intrude?

Arthur is a good bloke but he simply loves regulations. He likes to settle 
back and doze in a bed full of laws. He would love California that in one 
year passed 1,400 laws. - about 26 a week.

This discussion revolved around Walmart - the largest retailer by far in 
the US.

In other words, Americans like to shop at Walmart. I suppose Arthur would 
say 'they are "seduced" by the consumer economy and (fritter) away their 
earnings on ephemeralities.'

Be that as it may, they are making their own decisions and though we may 
sneer a little at their lack of intellectual awareness, I rather think they 
know better how to make the pennies work than the sophisticates with 
pockets full of folding money.

Because they have to.

I would hazard a guess that many of these "community regulations" are 
designed less to create an oasis of culture, than to keep out undesirables. 
But maybe I'm just jaundiced.

Harry

---------------------------------------------------------

Ray wrote:

>Everyone interferes with each others lives.  The point is respect and
mutual
>responsibility.   Then you work out what is the most humane for all.
These
>absolute laws are worse than useless, they are genocidal.    Reason is
>limited by the limits of your argument.   Basic rule number one in debate.
>
>REH
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Harry Pollard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 3:18 AM
>Subject: RE: [Futurework] Fruits of Work.
>
>
>Arthur wrote:
>
> >Perhaps they are not paid enough.
>
>Then we should ask why.
>
> >   Perhaps they were "seduced" by the consumer economy and frittered away
> > their earnings on ephemeralities.
>
>One person's ephemerality  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>
>You really must stop yourself from interfering with other people's lives.
>
>I'm aware you are much better able to decide what is good for others, but
>please - let them make their own mistakes.
>
>More seriously, Douglas Jay was a functionary in the first post WWII Labor
>government. He made himself somewhat famous (notorious?) by declaring 'We
>have people in Whitehall who know far better than the British housewife
>what she should do." (Keith knows about him.)
>
>Well, I say to hell with Douglas Jay and all the others in government who
>arrogantly and coercively want to make us march in lock-step with their
>certainties.
>
>Harry
>----------------------------------------------------
>
> >arthur
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Harry Pollard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 7:43 PM
> >To: Tor F�rde; Futurework
> >Subject: Re: [Futurework] Fruits of Work.
> >
> >
> >Tor,
> >
> >The article was good.
> >
> >The real question is that after 40 or 50 years of work, why cannot people
> >save enough to provide for their remaining years?
> >
> >Harry
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >Tor wrote:
> >
> >
> > >From:
> > >Le Monde diplomatique
> > >
> > >Tor F�rde
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >LEADER
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Death by work
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >By IGNACIO RAMONET
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >THE International Labour Organisation (ILO) has just published a report
> > >(1), largely ignored in the press, claiming that every year 270 million
> > >employees are injured worldwide in accidents in the workplace and 160
> > >million affected by work-related illnesses. The report reveals more
than
>2
> > >million workers die on the job each year - 5,000 people killed by their
> > >work every day. These statistics, the report makes clear, are an
> > >underestimate (2).
> > >
> > >In France, according to the Caisse nationale d'assurance maladie
(CNAM),
> > >780 workers are killed annually in the workplace (that is more than two
a
> > >day). These figures are also an underestimate; there are around
1,350,000
> > >work accidents a year (3) - 3,700 victims every eight-hour day, and
eight
> > >injured every minute.
> > >
> > >The defenders of workers' rights used to call this exaction in the name
>of
> > >economic growth and competition a blood tax (4). We should remember
that
> > >phrase when we come to look at the current debate about pensions and
> > >retirement, and consider the lives of hundreds of thousands of workers
> > >worn out and tossed on the scrap heap when they reach the end of their
> > >working lives. They are often deprived of the opportunity to enjoy
their
> > >pensions at all because, though life expectancy has increased, there
has
> > >also been (as an outcome of worsening workplace hazards) an explosion
in
> > >illnesses that most afflict older people age: cancers, cardio-vascular
> > >disease, depression, strokes, loss of sensory perception, arthrosis,
> > >senile dementia, Alzheimer's.
> > >
> > >This makes the present attack on pensions all the worse; the attack has
> > >been coordinated and driven by forces of globalisation (5), such as the
> > >G8, the World Bank (6) and the OECD (7), all of which have been
attacking
> > >social security (8) and the welfare state since the 1970s. The policy
has
> > >been picked up by the European Union, where prime ministers and
> > >governments of both left and right (Jacques Chirac and Lionel Jospin in
> > >France) decided, at the Barcelona Summit in March 2002, to push back
the
> > >retirement age by five years. This is a serious step backwards and an
> > >abandonment of plans to build fairer and more balanced societies.
> > >
> > >While employees are getting poorer, wealth is still concentrated at the
> > >top: 30 years ago an employer received about 40 times the average wage
of
> > >a worker. Today an employer earns a thousand times more (9) and can
look
> > >forward to the day of retirement with equanimity. This is far from
being
> > >the case for ordinary employees, especially teachers.
> > >
> > >Hundreds of thousands of teachers in Italy, Spain, Germany, Greece,
> > >Austria and France have been striking to protest against the
dismantling
> > >of the pension system. The system does need reform for at least two
> > >reasons: the active working population is shrinking while the number of
> > >retired people is increasing; and the economic weight of pensions,
today
> > >equivalent to 11.5% of GDP in France, will rise to 13.5% in 2020 and
>15.5%
> > >in 2040, to become a major expenditure for the state.
> > >
> > >Despite the stock market crash, which has wiped more than 20% off the
> > >value of pension funds, the option of financing pensions by savings has
> > >not been ruled out. All the more so because the full cost of reform of
>the
> > >contribution-based system will fall on employees, as if it were merely
a
> > >technical problem of no consequence for society as a whole. All the
> > >variables - the amount and period of contributions, the age of
>retirement,
> > >the final amount of a pension - are systematically being changed to the
> > >detriment of employees and incomes. No alternative solutions have been
> > >considered, such as calling on society for a contribution, or taxing
> >profits.
> > >
> > >It is considered normal in France that two workers lose their lives at
> > >work every day, and eight others are injured or fall every minute in
the
> > >cause of private enterprise. But it is not considered "normal" that
> > >companies and capital should be called upon to put more into the
pensions
> > >of their employees. It is not surprising that workers are angry.
> > >
> > >----------
> > >(1)
> >
>
><http://www.ilo.org/public/english/bureau/inf/pr/2003/18.htm#note1>http://w
> >ww.ilo.org/public/english/b...
> > >
> > >
> > >(2) See report Safety in Numbers: Suggestions for a World Culture of
> > >Safety at Work, International Labour Organisation, Geneva, 28 April
2003.
> > >
> > >(3) Les Echos, 7 November 2002.
> > >
> > >(4) See "Les accidents du travail. L'imp�t du sang. 19 d�cembre 1906"
in
> > >La Guerre sociale: Un journal contre, Les Nuits rouges, Paris, 1999.
> > >
> > >(5) The relationship between pensions and globalisation is close: in
the
> > >United States, Canada, Australia, Japan, the Netherlands and the United
> > >Kingdom contributory pension schemes feed the giant pension funds that
> > >have become central players in the new world of finance capital.
> > >
> > >(6) See the World Bank report Pension Reform in Europe,
> >
> ><http://publications.worldbank.org/ecommerce/catalog/product?item_id=1676

> 31>0>http://publications.worldbank.org/e....
> > >On its offensive against social security see
> >
>
><http://forums.transnationale.org/viewtopic.php?t=11>http://forums.transnat
> >ionale.org/vi....
> > >
> > >
> > >(7) El Pa�s, Madrid, 20 May 2003.
> > >
> > >(8) The Chadelat Report, published in April, promises a radical
challenge
> > >to the sickness benefit system. It aims to dismantle and privatise the
> > >social security system. See the text of the report at
> >
>
><http://www.ladocumentationfrancaise.fr/brp/notices/034000159.shtml>http://
> >www.ladocumentationfrancaise....
> > >
> > >
> > >9) Lib�ration, 21 May 2003.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Translated by Ed Emery
> >
> >****************************************************
> >Harry Pollard
> >Henry George School of Social Science of Los Angeles
> >Box 655   Tujunga   CA   91042
> >Tel: (818) 352-4141  --  Fax: (818) 353-2242
> >http://home.attbi.com/~haledward
> >****************************************************
> >
> >
> >
> >---
> >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> >Version: 6.0.486 / Virus Database: 284 - Release Date: 5/29/2003
>
>****************************************************
>Harry Pollard
>Henry George School of Social Science of Los Angeles
>Box 655   Tujunga   CA   91042
>Tel: (818) 352-4141  --  Fax: (818) 353-2242
>http://home.attbi.com/~haledward
>****************************************************
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>----
>
>
> >
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.486 / Virus Database: 284 - Release Date: 5/29/2003
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>Futurework mailing list
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
>
>
>---
>Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 6/10/2003

****************************************************
Harry Pollard
Henry George School of Social Science of Los Angeles
Box 655   Tujunga   CA   91042
Tel: (818) 352-4141  --  Fax: (818) 353-2242
http://home.attbi.com/~haledward
****************************************************

_______________________________________________
Futurework mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework

Reply via email to