Re: [Futurework] Beyond Bush

[Selma Singer]

I'm not completely convinced that there could not be a system that allows a controlled and constrained capitalism within a governmental structure that made sure that, commensurate with the wealth of the country, every person's needs (of all kinds) were adequately met; an extension and refinement of the model that has been used in northern European countries, perhaps. Actually, reading over what I have written here, I would have to change it. We can no longer think in terms of the wealth of any particular country belonging to just the people of that country. The people on this planet are already so interconnected that it is insanity for us to think or ourselves as separate nations. So, whatever system might be worked out, it would have to be one in which the wealth on this planet is seen as belonging to everyone.   I know that seems ridiculously idealistic and maybe not even worth talking about. It is my contention, however, that if we don't have some sense of what goals we want to see realized (not necessarily in our lifetimes) we cannot figure out what steps we need to take now in order to set us in a direction that holds out some hope of getting to a better place.   Do you have any ideas about what kind of an economic system would further the ends of a humane society? We can borrow ideas from small hunter-gatherer societies and even small agricultural communities, but taking those ideas and making them workable in large, complex, technologically oriented societies is what we need to work on.   I do not believe we can go back to some 'simpler' life that some seem to believe is possible. Most of those ideas are based in concepts of ideal societies that have never existed in reality, for one thing.   Secondly, I strongly believe that we need to use all existing technological advances for human benefit. Technology could make possible a very 'good' life for everyone, if, as a society, we had to the will to use it that way.   However, as the saying goes, "the devil is in the details" and, outside of a few very broad principles, how to bring this about is a question that I think needs the most discussion.   I think this is an issue that we must think about if any of our problems are ever to be solved. Otherwise we must inevitably destroy ourselves and everyone else as the administration in this country is already doing.   Selma       ----- Original Message ----- From: Darryl and Natalia To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 5:04 PM Subject: [Futurework] Beyond Bush Selma, That was a good one! Has the topic of the Illuminati been raised on FW?   Just a brief mention around your question about capitalism, and whether or not there are any circumstances under which it could actually be fair and just:   Acquiring the most money for the least investment always means profits are at the expense of someone else.   Just one tiny aspect of capitalism, that of interest rates acquired on money deposited, is false profit because it is earned on the premise that for every 5 cents--today's bank is allowed to lend out one dollar. This system is based upon the system remaining stable, hardly anyone removing their savings, and the bank being able to re-invest what isn't theirs in the first place. Much like the false value of diamonds; if only 5% of women cashed in or switched to another stone, the industry would be ruined. The image of stability is just that fragile, and money doesn't really grow. Anyone who invests does so at the expense of someone else, eventually. Wages are never commensurate with cost of living, and never with the cost of things they just don't make anymore. Capitalism depends on the enslavement of people to thrive. In a nut shell it is a blatant legalized pyramid scheme. I can't look at this question any way but rhetorically.   What are your views?   Natalia DJB