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That I would agree with. I wasn't
however interested in supporting a policy that just used Americans as the
punching bag in between the various Alpha groups. I think it was Keith
that referred to the possibility that Sadaam may actually have been running
the most liberal regime possible in that circumstance. I
remember what Asaad had to do to quiet the Palestinians in Syria. It
wasn't pretty. I suspect we may end up with a few massacres of our
own before this is all over. The world won't like it and those
who are as self-righteous as Americans will have a "field day" chewing on
us. In fact I think the first massacre was "shock and awe"
with all of those innocent civilians and their "collateral
damage." What we are fighting here is a battle to tell the
truth about all of this and to trust the American people to be able to make
intelligent choices based upon that truth. I never thought we got
the truth before the war and today I have been judged correct as has the others
on this list who chose to look beneath the surface of things. The
answer, however in a citizen army, is to make sure that you have the people with
you for it is our relatives that are getting shot at. America has
always been a polyglot of groups and is still but we are more united then ever
through the information revolution and lies and deceit has never been more
unacceptable. In my humble opinion.
REH
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 4:44
PM
Subject: Re: [Futurework] Taliban on the
increase
Apologies for the shock, Ray. However, the Americans are in
Iraq. They have replaced Saddam as the power sitting on a potential
powder keg. Having taken on that role, they have to stay there, whether
people are taking pot shots at them or not. As a I suggested in a
previous posting, they need help, lots of it, and are now beginning to
recognize it. Pacifying and stabilizing Iraq is in everybody's interest
and the US has to find a way to manoever it's unilateral position into a
multilateral one.
Ed Weick
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 3:01
PM
Subject: Re: [Futurework] Taliban on
the increase
What will likely happen in Iraq if the
Americans walk out is a bloodbath.
> Various factions there, religious
or ethnic, do not appear to like each
> other very much. As long
as the Americans stay, they have a common enemy.
> If the Americans
leave, they'll only have themselves.
Excuse me Ed but from your usually logical
posts I was shocked to see the above statement. So we are
supposed to put our citizen military in the line of fire so that the Alpha
Male dominant theology of Islam can take pot shots at us and save their
lives? And where is the jolly rest of the lazy world
in all of this? I don't like that America treats the
world as a natural resource to be mined but I also don't support that the
rest of the world sits on its lazy hands and refuses to participate in
international problems except on their own terms. If
Europe had been less self-serving in places like Bosnia and Africa then
those of us in America resisting Bush would have had a much better case to
make against the war in Iraq.
I don't support putting my relatives in the
military out there to separate people who are so chauvinistic and provincial
that they can't imagine living together without being on
top. I realize that Hitler was the result of
such nonsense but America could have been less judgmental and more helpful
in the German transition from WW I and we would have had a shot at avoiding
Hitler. I also feel that we blew it in Russia after the fall of
Communism but this case of our being "sitting duck policemen" is not
the right time or the right place for us to be. I would prefer
they go through their human sacrifice routine that they are bound
to do and when the time is right we help the people who are capable of
negotiation and international affairs as well as being good leaders for
their own people. Support the education and sophistication
of the people and do not support the Rubes no matter how much they
will sell the oil cheaply to our Republican businessmen.
Ray Evans Harrell
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 1:07
PM
Subject: Re: [Futurework] Taliban on the
increase
> Keith, the only thing I can say in response is what I've said
before: the
> world will be a much more dangerous place if the
Americans withdraw from
> Iraq and leave a total mess. The same
applies to Afghanistan where, I'd
> agree, the Americans do not appear
to have done very much fixing up. The
> place remains under the
control of various warlords. And, as you and the
> NYTimes
pointed out, the Taliban are still there too.
>
> Yesterday I
spent some time rereading sections of Samantha Power's "A
> Problem
from Hell: America in the Age of Genocide". She goes into
>
considerable detail on how Ali Hassan al-Majid (aka Chemical Ali) solved
the
> problem of the Kurds for Saddam. Many thousands died
either by being gassed
> or lined up and shot. This was going on
while Iraq was an American ally.
> The US was dimly aware of it, but
preferred to look the other way.
>
> What will likely happen in
Iraq if the Americans walk out is a bloodbath.
> Various factions
there, religious or ethnic, do not appear to like each
> other very
much. As long as the Americans stay, they have a common enemy.
>
If the Americans leave, they'll only have themselves.
>
>
Ed
>
> > Ed,
> >
> > I don't wan't to be
tedious about this but after writing last night about
> > the
complete and utter failure of the Americans to do anything
>
constructive
> > in Afghanistan -- and certainly in their main
objective of finding or
> > killing Osama bin Laden -- I read this
morning as headlines in the New
> York
> > Times that the
Taliban are on the increase again!
> >
> > When Alexander
the Great invaded Afghanistan he left some real legacies
> > behind
him -- a couple of new cities if I remember my history books
>
rightly
> > -- as well as genes for blue eyes and blonde hair which
still turn up
> > surprisingly often in Afghani children. The
Americans have not left
> > anything even as microscopic as
that.
> >
> > The Americans completely and utterly failed
in Afghanistan, but they have
> > completely and utterly succeeded
in not reminding the American people of
> > this. And, because of
the indifference of people to others outside their
> > own ambit,
this failure is quite outside their consciousness and the
> >
ignorance will remain until the history books are written 50 or 100
years
> > down the line and it will only be scholars who will
register the fact in
> > their minds.
> >
> > The
same -- and worse -- will apply in Iraq. The Iraqis are only united
in
> > their hatred of the Americans. As regards their own
relationships, they
> > have become even more polarised than they
were before. Just like the
> Afghanis.
> >
> >
Here's another forecast. Today or tomorrow while the Ayatollah's coffin
is
> > being carried to its resting place, there might be an
incident in which
> > some American soldiers, despite their guns,
will be torn limb from limb by
> > the naked hands of Iraqi young
men. If it doesn't happen in the next two
> > days it will happen
sooner or later. It will only take one BBC or other
> > journalist
to record this on video, and the Americans will be out of Iraq
> >
within a month.
> >
> > Keith
> > Keith Hudson, 6
Upper Camden Place, Bath, England,
> > <www.evolutionary-economics.org>
> >
> >
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>
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