CURRENT LESSON <http://geocities.com/machine_psychology/Lesson_30>
On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I agree with most of what you say. People are increasingly apolitical and > it seems the only way to get them involved is to engage them. Directly. > Not through one of the increasingly irrelevant political parties (which are > quite similar). > > Direct democracy can be dangerous. Our present hodge podge can also be > dangerous. > > The libertarian trend on the Net is interesting. I guess it reflects > something. Maybe the pendulum is swinging. Libertarianism can be dangerous. FWP > arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert E. Bowd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 10:13 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Futurework] Re: direct democracy // Schwarzenegger > > > Hi Arthur, > > I wanted to respond to your post in relation to my rhetorical question > concerning Web-citizensip. I inadvertently deleted it. > > You have correctly pointed out the nature of the contemporary political > alliance that constitutes our political hegemony. I would add that there > are many professional technocrats and authoritarian populists who are also > arrayed with that alliance. > > However, I do not accept that the introduction of technology, as argued by > some proponents of cyber-democracy, constitutes a greater democracy. If > anything, it may simply represent a new technological mediation of the > political forces already dominating the political culture. I think the > intensified corporatization of the internet points in this direction. > > I have been reading Manuel Castell's "The Internet Galaxy" and am struck by > the role that libertarian thinking has played in the shaping of the Net. (I > am aware of alternative *progressive sites*, of course.) In the open > cyber-forums (public spaces) I have seen the regulation of these sites as > proprietary sites, often under constant surveillance by right wing > libertarians, who precipitate flame wars to silence voices they do not want > to be heard. It has always rankled my free speech sensibilities. If we > are going to move down the road to cyberdemocracy, then we will have to > understand, clearly, which democratic ideology we are embracing. > > As someone who is skeptical about the level of political awareness, and > sense of individual political efficacy, in postmodern society, where image > is valued more than substance, I have some trepidations in just accepting a > new technology as the solution to the crisis of democracy. > > There are examples, where it has worked, as we both know, such as the use > of the Internet to stop the MAI Treaty, but again this has involved selected > institutions, such as the Council of Canadians, working with other activist > insitutions, internationally. I suspect the hegemonic powers-that-be have > learned the lesson well, from that experience. For every Michael Moorse > Website, there is a libertarian website, in Texas, (Moorewatch) attacking > his credibility. Talking to a Generation Y sales clerk, at Indigo, last > weekend, it was Moorewatch that was given credence. I suspect it was > because Moorewatch reinforced the conservative values in his middle class > family, as the culture has shifted rightward, with neoliberalism and > neoconservatism. > > Political processes are complex and I think it is still necessary for people > to get away from the atomization of cyber-cultures to talk to one another, > face-to-face. It's a different kind of human communication. > > Enjoy your Thanksgiving! > > Bob > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 2:36 PM > Subject: RE: [Futurework] Re: direct democracy // Schwarzenegger > > > > Agree with all that you say. Which is why I mentioned a measured (and > > should have added deliberative) online referendum. > > > > The recall itself was a referendum. The vote for who to succeed was > > something else. > > > > arthur > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2003 1:46 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: [Futurework] Re: direct democracy // Schwarzenegger > > > > > > The California recall has very little to do with direct democracy -- > > after all, it was an election of a representative, not a vote on a > > single issue (as is usual in referenda). The only DD component was > > the timing of the (re-)election. > > > > Also, from the land of direct democracy I'd like to remind you that > > DD is not just a matter of technical possibilities (e.g. E-democracy), > > but what's necessary to achieve sensible results is that voters are > > well informed and educated, both on the issue of the referendum and > > on politics in general. Else, DD is just a matter of which side has > > a higher advertising budget or irrational assets like movie stars. > > > > Btw, in a country where kids flush their goldfish thru the toilet > > (to "set them free") and other kids jump off skyscrapers wearing > > a Superman dress (thinking it makes them fly), after watching the > > corresponding movies, it's not really surprising that an actor who > > starred in a movie named "Total Recall" wins the Recall election. > > Americans have difficulties to distinguish TV from reality (also > > with CNN / Fox"News") ... > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the > keyword > > "igve". > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Futurework mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > _______________________________________________ > > Futurework mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
