Re: [Futurework] Riots in Riyadh?

[Darryl and Natalia]

Well Arthur, maybe you are correct; considering the proclivity of the Bush admin. to produce "mini-nukes" for their agenda. As Lawrence has stated below, the extremists (those who would do well to be genetically altered) will bring on another world war.   The current trend toward "terrorism" is the outcome of interference by those not wanted. Any peoples deserve the right to manage their own problems; to revolt, should they be so inclined.   But, how can a people manage their problems if they do not have the education to give them the insight and the nurtured intelligence to comprehend the rising of a problem before it is out of hand?   Any authoritarian government or ruling body automatically attempts to corrupt learning; to sway or brainwash the populace to their desired ends of control. Ray has often bemoaned the lack of the Arts in the N.A. school system (with which I concur) and , as Harry pointed out through "Gatto" (thank you Harry), the desire of the school system is to create a society of worker bees who do exactly as they are told and (I will add) through the aspect of "team sports" will learn the idea of "nationalist fervour" to the point of dying when you are told (war). It is far easier to control an ignorant populace than an intelligent one. NOTE: I did not say educated as "intelligence" and "education" do not appear compatible in today's lexicon.   Those individuals with whom I have met here in Esquimalt who are enlisting in the Navy have only high school (or a couple of years in a trade school) -- all workers at the lowest pay scale and who, under the present Canadian administration, have no future but economic slavery at minimum wage IF they can find a job. These are not well educated people. For whatever reasons, they have had problems with the present school system.They are only worker bees awaiting instruction from the Queen (uh-oh, did I get into Royalty again?).   Their lives in the military will be no better but, once again, they do not have the education or nurtured intelligence to realize this.   For some unknown reason (ego, ignorance?), those who have clutched the "power" unto themselves and their families throughout the generations I feel fully believe they will survive any true holocaust or "ARMAGEDDON" if they stay out of the general front line action and hide in the safety of their bunkers. And it is these genetically corrupted humans (if I can make this jump from the recent homosexual prattle) that will create the problems as would appear to be the case throughout history. Or, conversely, they could simply be "nurtured" in this direction by their private schooling.   And where is the Canadian side regarding the sell-out and corruption of our country as we are being poured down the tubes of greed?     Darryl       ----- Original Message ----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 7:51 AM Subject: RE: [Futurework] Riots in Riyadh? In my more gloomy moments it seems that the  Biblical prohecies seem to  be unfolding inexorably.  Armageddon. ...   arthur -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence DeBivort [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, November 2, 2003 5:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Futurework] Riots in Riyadh? US policy is being used for a narrow set of interests: the Christian evangelicals seem determined to create a clash of religions -- Christianity vs Islam.  Oddly, a branch of them, the Christian-Zionists, have added to the portfolio an Israel-first agenda. Given the Christian-Zionist belief that all non-Christians will be destroyed, it seems strange that some elements in Israel have embraced an alliance with these Christian-Zionists, but then the Israelis probably don't think that God has that in store for them, so don't much care for the beliefs and values that lie behind Christian-Zionism, happy to settle for the political support the Christian-Zionists offer Israel.   In case any of you missed it, by Christian-Zionist I am referring to people like Tom DeLay -- see the very interesting speech he gave to the Israeli Knesset recently.   Right now, the Christian evangelical and Christian-Zionist agenda is powerfully placed within the Administration: Rove, DeLay, Feith, Perle, Bolton, Reed...et al.  US policy toward the rest of the world generally and the Arabs and Muslims specifically has been hijacked by these folks, and is now working against the interests of the country. Sometimes these US policies are justified by the 'war on terrorism' -- one of the inventions of the Christian evangelicals -- but the sad fact is that the 'war on terrorism' is actually aggravating the terror threat, not diminishing it. This is a pedantic way of saying that Americans will die thanks to these Christian evangelicals.   As the rest of the world reacts to what they see as a US out of control, we will see a broadband resistance to the US take shape. Not only will there be further terror attacks on US interests, but trade relations will suffer, and cultural ones. I don't know if you ever had a desire to take your art overseas, but the chances of that happening have taken a nose-dive in the last two years.  Then, also, we have the trillions of dollars that this 'war on terror is costing us, or rather costing future generations. And the impact on US civil liberties, e.g. the 'sneak and peek' and unlimited uncharged detention policies pushed by Ashcroft and the President.   The Christian evangelicals simply do not care about these costs to the US and our interests: they give their religious goals precedence over US interests.   The American public is gullible. How many Americans have ever traveled to the Muslim or Arab worlds (other than in a tank)? How many Americans even know Arabs or Muslims who live in this country, as their neighbors?  Hell, how many people even on this list???   Americans are patriotic. Combined with their gullibility, this leaves them open to being exploited, to being conned into giving their support, if only a passive support, for policies that would readily appear inimical to a populace that was more knowledgeable, thoughtful, and skeptical.     -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Ray Evans Harrell Sent: Sun, November 02, 2003 4:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Riots in Riyadh? While the gullibility of Americans is saddening, the pernicious behavior of those who are willing to exploit this gullibility is nothing short of criminal.     Could you speak more about this?   REH ----- Original Message ----- From: Lawrence DeBivort To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 3:17 PM Subject: RE: [Futurework] Riots in Riyadh? Excellent article -- thanks for posting it, Keith.   If Turki al-Faisal is criticizing US policy and actions openly, this is indeed serious. I figure it will take the US and UK about two decades to repair the damage they have done to themselves overseas.. What an unnecessary penalty we have to pay for the ignorance and narrow-focus agenda of the US administration.   The Shah tried the White Revolution, and found that it led to greater demands for civil liberties and economic freedom, not fewer. Then with US advice and advisors, he created SAVAK, an instrument of secret and not so secret repression. And so he was overthrown and a counter-revolution swept into power, instead of the moderates who led the anti-Shah effort.  I don't think the Saudis will go this way; the Saudi populace is more united and coherent than Iran's (and smaller), and they have the tribal structures of governance, which are accepted generally by all, to fall back on. Specifically, I am referring to the diwanniya and succession practices.   There is no intrinsic reason that the US and Saudi Arabia should not get along. Attacks on Saudi Arabia have been pretty well organized by those who want generally to poison US relations with the Arab and Muslim worlds. These same people have orchestrated a series of actions by the US that is designed, in my opinion, to harm US relations with these countries, and so to set the US and Arabs/Muslims against each other long term. Unfortunately, no one in the US government seems ready to denounce these efforts.