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Thomas, if you can find and another solutions and sell
it to the public and the politicians, I would be right there with you.
Right now, some people have to eat; others have to feel good. That's
it.
Equally respectfully, Ed
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 3:19
PM
Subject: Re: Slightly extended (was Re:
[Futurework] David Ricardo, Cavema n Trade vs. Modern Trade
Hi Ed:
Am I to take it that food banks should continue
to exist because they satisfy the dysfunctional emotions of those who run them
while frustrating the self respect of those who have to use them. Talk
about the logic of the absurb.
Respectfully,
Thomas
Lunde
----------
From: "Ed Weick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Slightly extended (was
Re: [Futurework] David Ricardo, Cavema n Trade vs. Modern Trade
Date:
Fri, Dec 12, 2003, 1:55 PM
Thomas:
I'm sure the
ongoing drudgery of running a food bank must be a major pain in the
ass.
Ed:
No, not really. Our foodbank has a permanent manager, a
paid position. She likes the work. As for the volunteers, most
are elderly. It makes them feel they are doing something useful and
gives the a two or three times a week outing. And it allows the people
who donate food and money to think that they are doing something purposeful
too. Good and virtuous feelings all around, though not including the
people who need to use the foodbank to stay alive.
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ;
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 1:41
PM
Subject: RE: Slightly extended (was Re: [Futurework] David
Ricardo, Cavema n Trade vs. Modern Trade
that's the idea.
although I think that many people running food
banks (along with those who show up at shelters on X-mas day to dole out
food) gain great comfort form these
actions.
arthur
-----Original Message-----
From:
Thomas Lunde [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:
Friday, December 12, 2003 12:53 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Slightly extended (was Re: [Futurework] David
Ricardo, Cavema n Trade vs. Modern Trade
Thomas:
If
I read you right Arthur, then shutting down the food banks by volunteer
groups would increase the misery index and force government to address
the problem in a different way? That's not a bad idea as I'm sure
the ongoing drudgery of running a food bank must be a major pain in the
ass.
Respectfully,
Thomas Lunde
----------
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:
RE: Slightly extended (was Re: [Futurework] David Ricardo, Cavema n
Trade vs. Modern Trade
Date: Mon, Dec 8, 2003, 12:02
PM
I agree
with your analysis, Ed.
Social change is ongoing
and new alliances will be formed---but out of necessity. The
three groups you mention don't have to work together or even
acknowledge each other as long as good hearted middle class folk are
handing out free food. Turn off the tap and you will see
cooperation and shared understanding
aplenty.
arthur
-----Original Message-----
From:
Ed Weick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:
Monday, December 8, 2003 11:17 AM
To: Cordell, Arthur:
ECOM; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:
Re: Slightly extended (was Re: [Futurework] David Ricardo, Caveman
Trade vs. Modern Trade
Ed, when the poor kick back politicians will
act.
I agree, and in some cases
they have on matters such as housing, for example. But they
can't seem to present any kind of unified front. The people I
described as using my food bank, older guys from the valley,
embarrassed young mothers with kids, and the young who graced us
with their presence really wanted to have very little to do with
each other. What we need is a unification of the poor and
politicians who pay attention to them, but we seem to have run out
of people like Tommy Douglas, Stanley Knowles and David Lewis and we
now seem to have a plethora of people like Peter MacKay, Stephen
Harper and Paul Martin, people who pay far more attention to the
rich than the poor. In the past few decades, the political
drift has been rightward, and the drift of society as a whole has
been toward the establishment of a middle class identity that sees
poverty terms of personal flaw and the poor as undeserving.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ;
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 10:37
AM
Subject: RE: Slightly extended (was Re: [Futurework]
David Ricardo, Caveman Trade vs. Modern Trade
Ed, when the poor kick
back politicians will act.
-----Original
Message-----
From: Ed Weick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:
Monday, December 8, 2003 9:32 AM
To: Harry Pollard;
'Thomas Lunde'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Slightly extended (was Re: [Futurework]
David Ricardo, Caveman Trade vs. Modern
Trade
I'm not laughing, Harry.
I've just accessed a report by the Canadian Council on
Social Development that shows that poverty in urban areas,
including poverty among the working poor, increased in
Canada between 1990 and 1995. It has probably continued to
increase since then. I'm not sure of what can be done
about it, but I would agree with Arthur that foodbanks are not
the answer. Neither is kicking the poor harder, as
politicians seem increasingly to want to
do.
Ed
-----
Original Message -----
From: Harry Pollard <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 'Ed Weick' <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; 'Thomas Lunde'
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 4:09 AM
Subject:
RE: Slightly extended (was Re: [Futurework] David Ricardo, Caveman Trade vs.
Modern Trade
Ed,
Not only
to liberty and justice not taste too well, when they aren't there to taste,
you will be sure that ends will not meet.
Two
hundred years ago, Ricardo postulated the "Iron Law of Wages" and about 125
years ago George picked it up and ran with it. Of course that's all Classical
stuff - out-of-date for these complex modern
economies.
So, we have welfare for people
with full-time jobs who can't survive on what they get. We even have a name
for them - the working poor. We have a law to force employers to pay a minimum
wage, when in the England of half a millennium or so ago - there was a
law to keep wages down (the Statute of Laborers).
Why don't we laugh? Even though it might sound a trifle
hollow.
So, in ten years, or twenty, or a
hundred, will we still be trying but failing to provide something for an ever
increasing number of the poor?
On second
thoughts, don't laugh.
Harry
********************************************
Henry George School of Social Science
of Los Angeles
Box 655 Tujunga
CA 91042
Tel: 818 352-4141 --
Fax: 818 353-2242
http://haledward.home.comcast.net
<http://haledward.home.comcast.net/>
********************************************
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Ed Weick
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 6:08
AM
To: Thomas Lunde; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:
Re: Slightly extended (was Re: [Futurework] David Ricardo, Caveman Trade vs.
Modern Trade
Thomas, very good posting.
Ontario has just raised the minimum wage from peanuts to peanuts.
Many of the poor are working full time and even double time, but are
still unable to meet the rent or buy enough food, let alone get their kids the
kinds of in toys ("status goods") that are going around. They can try
eating freedom and justice, but they don't taste very good when you can't make
ends meet.
Ed
----- Original
Message -----
From: Thomas Lunde <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 3:36 AM
Subject:
Re: Slightly extended (was Re: [Futurework] David Ricardo, Caveman Trade vs.
Modern Trade
They don't need money, Thomas.
They need justice and the freedom to enjoy it.
Harry
Thomas:
In a way, you are
right. Being poor and working with the poor as customers and neighbours
let's me see the many ways the poor are lacking justice. A recent
article in the paper made the outstanding statement that 37% of workers in
Canada are not covered by the Labour Code and laws. When wages for the
poor are kept artificially low, then the only way to compensate to maintain a
survival standard is to work more. Of course, there are about 4 to 5%
who are mentally incapable, or physically disabled or in the case of single
mothers, family challenged. However, the work more solution has only
produced the working poor, who still have to use food banks and subsidized
housing, if thet can get it. Not only that, as you suggest, they do not
even have the freedom to enjoy what little they have. I would agree,
that justice and freedom would go a long way to compensating for money - or as
you might suggest, make the earning and spending of money a by product of an
effective system of justice and the freedom and thereby create a surplus to
enjoy.
Respectfully,
Thomas Lunde
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