Hy,
1) Too many top level components.
Why are components like Zend_TimeSync and Zend_Measure being given top
level
categories? Everything else so far seems to be categorized correctly, but
why are those two not under the Zend_Locale namespace?
This is a preview, so things can change.
But for now only components are squezed together to class packages which are
also related.
So what does the conversion of length or from binary to roman have to do
with locale ???
It can convert, nothing more.
And what has time syncronisation to do with locale ???
Getting a proper timestamp from an stratum server has nothing to do with
localization.
Both classes are proposed and in huge parts also released by me...
But should they be related to Zend_Locale only for the reason I am also the
team coordinator of I18N ??
I think not so. Otherwise I would have to name them Zend_Thomas or something
:-)
Zend_Timesync could be related to Zend_Date but when I released the proposal
the first time I was said to
exclude it from Zend_Date to an own namespace.
Personaly I see no problems in having more than 5 namespaces in the
framework.
Having all in subnamespaces would, in my opinion, lead to the illusion that
the framework is not worth for
customers because of lacking support of different tasks...
Similarly, why is Zend_Gdata not under Zend_Services_Gdata like Yahoo,
Delicious and the others?
GData is not in the framework as I see...
It's in labratory. Labratory classes are userland and not part of the
framework.
Maybe GData will be stripped together with Zend_Service in the future.
But as it's not incubatored for now I can give no reason for the decision of
the author not to do so.
2) A lack of focus
No offense to the authors that are building these components, but aren't
Form Helpers, an Ajax Helper, etc. more important than a Measure class, or
a
TimeSync class that 1/100 developers would use? It seems like we are
building some components and devoting a lot of attention to areas that
most
people will not need.
I know that a Form helper class is in development, and no one has until now
proposed an ajax helper class.
But that could be because there are enough Ajax frameworks out there...
Again saying for Timesync and Measurement.
There are several authors and each author has his own prefered work.
Until now I am the only one who has proposed I18N components.
In sum there are about 12 classes which are related to I18N which I myself
and alone (for now) have to code.
No help from others like you .....
So it's annoying to hear that what I've done until now is peanuts and
useless.
In my opinion, if someone is not in use of a class he should just not use
it.
Related to measurement...
I had the use of it in a project of mine, so I had to write it myself...
it's just a benefit for the framework otherwise I would not have had time to
code the class. If you dont have use for it, it should be no problem...
Just because I have no use of Zend_Db for now I would not say to exclude it
because php has already pdo support and I use adodb internally. It's always
the authors choice what he want to code.
I began with the easiest one, and this was Zend_Measure.
Related to timesync...
Just because you can not see an effort of timesync doesn't mean that there
is no one.
Timesync will be used in enterprise systems, as the one I am coding for my
company.
Small homepage users will never use it. But should we exclude classes just
because only 10.000 people from 1.000.000 can use it ?
My opinion is that it shows that the framework can not only be used in small
business but also in enterprise systems... and these are the places where
PHP wants to be used in.
The class itself would never be coded if I would not have Andries which does
the coding part.
(Thnx Andries for your effort)
So should I have said Andries not to help me because he has no knowledge of
Currency or Translation issues ?
I'm always happy having helping hands.
Looking at the amount of time invested, how many people will need a
Zend_Measure class as opposed to an easy way to build forms, or a simple
ORM
component? However, it seems as though the latter components are being
pushed back and attention is being devoted to components with narrow use
cases.
I've no deeper knowledge of ORM or form building.
My interest ist only I18N related which is wide enough for one person.
So in your opinion I should not commit code until ORM or Forms are avaiable
?
Again... how fast classes are coded depends on the time the authors can
spend...
We need no shouting people... we need helping hands.
Again, I mean no offense to the authors of the Measure and TimeSync
classes,
and I am sure it is great code. My concern is more with the general
direction of the framework. If you look at successful frameworks like RoR,
or even Symfony nowdays, they build all the things that a developer needs
immediately, (MVC, Forms, etc.) and once those are done, move on to the
more
specialized components.
Maybe you should look at the amount of SVN commits before you say that there
is no
effort to finish MVC and related.
The direction of the framework is always related to the amount of authors
which are involved.
And what a developer needs is depending to the developer which uses the
framework.
I was in need of Measure and I will be in use of Timesync soon...
I also have no need for Forms and MVC works for me the way it's released in
the incubator.
So should I switch to Symphony only because it has now more possibilitys ?
I say no... I believe for me the ZF is more usefull than Symphony.
And I am glad to be part of it! :-)
Greetings
Thomas
(I18N Team Head, Author of the mentioned Zend_Measure, and Proposer and
Co-Author of Zend_Timesync)
