Hi Dark, Yeah, I know. Tolkien invested a lot of his life to building up the history, languages, and myths for his books which is one reason they are so good. Few authors devote that much effort for their work and are far less developed in scope. This is why it is difficult for a game developer with a casual interest to just write a game set in Middle Earth because he or she needs to know as much about the world, its history, languages, cosmology, and myths as the fans do.
As you yourself pointed out we aren't just talking about changes in a universe created for TV, but the changes in a historical record that is very detailed and precise. Only a person very educated in that historical record should write the back story for that game and create believable characters for that type of universe. Anyone else is going to make mistakes that will not appeal to the fans. For instance, as someone who has only read the books a couple of times and watched the movies once or twice it totally escaped me that the reason Frodo and Sam managed to make it to Mount Doom successfully and destroy the ring was because Sauron was under the mistaken belief that anyone who found it would use it not destroy it. When you pointed out I see clearly the reasons why and can recall the books saying as much, but I wasn't paying that close attention to it to be honest. It was just casual reading at the time, and I might have made a mistake like Peter Jackson did as a result. Cheers! On 4/21/13, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote: > Hi tom. > > I do take your point, and it is certainly true in terms of Doctor who and > starwars I've seen a lot of things slide and it is also true I can enjoy a > game as a game just as well as the next person. one intrinsic problem in > lotr however, is that you are dealing with something far more serious when > messing around with the history and plot than you are with most other > series. > > tolkien spent literally his entire life working on the languages, history, > cosmology and myths of middle earth, so completely that there is year and > date info for every event in the books, (and many that are not), and much of > > the events fall very much into this pattern. > > to take one example, there is a scene in the two towers film in which Frodo > > and sam are dragged to osgiliath by Faramir where they witness a battle with > > the nazgul. Even if we overlook the fact that Faramir's character from a > purely literary perspective got a complete reversal in the film, during this > > battle Frodo drops the ring and it's revealed to a Nazgul who then flies > off. > > The chief purpose of Frodo's errand in the book and the reason it succeeded > > is that Sauron would assume that if anyone found the ring, they would > naturally wish (as he would in their place), to use it against him, and not > > to destroy it. Thus, all of Sauron's efforts were based on crushing Gondor > and the west before anyone could find the ring and with it's power challenge > > him, which was precisely why two hobbits crawling into Mordor to the very > heart of his own land, seaking not to wield the ring but to destroy it is > something he missed. > > yet, in the film we see one of Sauron's chief servants, (which he has mental > > communication with), see the one thing he needs to conquer the entire world, > > very lightly defended, in the hands of a hobbit on the outskirts of his > land, ---- indeed he already had a huge army massing at Minas morgul which > was perhaps 20 miles from osgilliath. yet, we see Sauron in the film > literally not acknolidging this fact, and carrying on with his attacks > regardless. > > this scene in the film Peter jackson obviously put in for visual appeal, and > > to have a face off betwene frodo and the Nazgul, however he in no way > considdered the more serious historysurrounding it. > > There are some great articals on this (which are very fair), on the > encyclopedia of Arda website.http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/ > > This is why Tolkien fan's in particular have such a thing about Cannon, > since your not just talking about changes in a universe created for tv, but > > changes in a full and complete historical reccord. > > As another example, and one related to games, you mentioned including > gandalf in a game. The problem is however, Gandalf is actually a being of > the same order and magnitude as Sauron himself, a Maia. While he chooses not > > to exercise his power much of the time, it is really only beings of the same > > order as himself that could present a problem, one reason why he tells even > > Arragorn, probably one of the finest warriors in middle earth (not to > mention Boromir, Gimly and legolas), "this is a foe beyond any of you" when > > he confronts the Balrog. > > suppose however you made a game in which Gandalf was the same rank as other > > characters, had a standard energy meater and could be ko'd by an orc just as > > easily as a mortal. Without knowing Gandalf's background (only hinted at in > > Lotr, though fully explained in the Silmarillion), you might assume he is a > > fairly standard old wizard of the D&D glass cannon variety, which he is not > > by any stretch of the imagination. > > > As I said, I can accept a game as a game in many fields. I enjoy super > starwars and it's sequals for what it is, but in lotr Cannon is a little > more serious because! of this historical matter. > > I'm not saying that I wouldn't enjoy say a side scroller where you could > play as gandalf or the rest of the characters, just that for me, it would > badly lose something, as much as for you a wee wrestling game would be more > > interesting than a generic one. > > however, just as the wee wrestling situation is soluable by as I suggested, > > including info about the wrestlers to make it comprehensive to those who do > > not know such things, I do think a cannon lotr game is soluable too, > provided you pick your subject and characters carefully. > > for example, Arragorn legolas and gimly, along with the host of the dead > rohirim make their way to the battle of pelenor fields. We don't learn much > > about this journey, only that they went through some caves haunted by > ghosts, with Gimly experiencing some quite distinct fear, and that when they > > arived out they needed to ride to the mouths of Anduin and attack Sauron's > allies from Unbar along with the host of the dead. > > well again, this is a point when a side scroller could be set, first getting > > through the caves, perhaps confronting ghosts and undead, then heading to > the river fighting orcs and other soldiers, and in Aragorn, legolas and > gimly you have three very playable characters. > > another good place might be the dwarve's exit from the Goblin caves after > being rescued by gandalf, and after bilbo got lost and had his adventure > with Golum. The dwarves quite literally fought their way out of that one, so > > lots of chances for goblin fighting in the misty mountains. > > It's just a matter of picking your points I'd say, and in keeping at least a > > respect for the actual history of middle earth. > > > Beware the grue! > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. 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