Hi, on top of all this, there is one simple thing to look at. Look at the main gaming industry. There are a lot of games out there that do not support anything less than Windows 7. So we aren't the first to see this happen. In fact, the audio games industry is being held back by the fact that we are being encouraged to keep supporting old OSs. So I think it's time that we look at the bigger picture of computing, and the capabilities that new OSs provide, and look at upgrading and what it would providers, rather than what it does not provide us!
Regards: Dallas On 30/04/2013, at 22:50, Thomas Ward <thomasward1...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Dark, > > Like so many things in life there are two sides to every argument, and > I certainly can't dispute that the issues you raised are valid, but > there is another side to the debate as well. > > It is true that on 64-bit versions of Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8 > it is not possible to play older 16-bit Dos games without a > third-party emulator like Dosbox which is unfortunately not > accessible. However, the real problem is not Windows, but the newer > 64-bit processors themselves as they can not execute 16-bit > applications natively which is why Microsoft dropped 16-bit support in > newer versions of Windows. The problem for developers like Microsoft > is why should they spend time and money trying to support old 16-bit > applications that is no longer supported by the hardware of today when > there are free applications like Dosbox available? > > However, the problem with making Dosbox accessible is easier said than > done. From what I know of Dosbox in order to make it accessible a > developer would be better off rewriting the emulator completely from > scratch. That is no minor undertaking, and are you and the rest of the > V.I. community willing to pay for this to be done? > > The second issue you raised is that of Visual Basic 6 support. I > frankly don't know what you expect us developers to do about that > situation. In my opinion there is frankly nothing we can do about that > situation directly. The only thing we can do as end users and > developers is encourage those using Visual Basic to upgrade to > something more modern as quickly as they can to avoid any more > needless compatibility issues. Otherwise we are going to experience > more issues like those with the BSC games and Windows 8 as newer > versions of Windows become available. > > What I am about to say will sound harsh to many, but I think it needs > to be said. As early as 2006 I remember Microsoft actively encouraging > Visual Basic 6 developers to upgrade to VB .NET and to move away from > DirectX 8 as time was running out. Most of the mainstream developers > listened and chose to begin upgrading their software to VB .NET 2005. > Here we are nearly 7 years later and the majority of audio game > developers are still using it even though Visual Basic 6 was > discontinued as far back as 2008. So any compatibility issues we have > with games and Windows 8 are the fault of those audio game developers > who have chosen for one reason or another not to adopt newer > programming languages and tools. It is the audio game developers who > are making it difficult to upgrade to say Windows 8 without worrying > if game x will or won't be compatible not Microsoft. Its not like > Microsoft didn't repeatedly warn VB developers what would happen years > in advance. So let's begin by placing the blame where blame is due. > > Regarding the user interface it is definitely different in Windows 7 > and in Windows 8 but there are workarounds for what you want. The > Classic Shell application restores many of the Windows XP U.I. > elements you are talking about including the classic Start Menu etc. > So saying it is not possible to have listed menus and coherent folder > structures, is absolutely false. If you were to install the Classic > Shell add-on for Windows you would restore a semblance of the Windows > XP look and feel to modern versions of Windows. > > Finally, while it is certainly your right to choose to upgrade or not > upgrade let me say that it puts us game developers in an untenable > situation. What I mean by that is sometimes it is not possible to > support both older versions of Windows and newer versions of Windows > at the same time. The way technology changes a developer has to make > decisions weather to create games for a legacy operating system like > XP or stick with whatever is current. There are technical > considerations that you, the end user, do not have to make but we do. > > For example, consider virtual 3d audio. While DirectSound has virtual > 3d support the fact of the matter is it isn't very good and it doesn't > work properly on Windows 7 and Windows 8. The solution or fix for the > problem is to switch to Microsoft's new DirectX audio API XAudio2 > which works fine on Windows 7 and Windows 8. However, next year > Microsoft will no longer be providing updates for Windows XP, > including XAudio2 for XP, so as a game developer my options are > limited. Either I build against an older version of XAudio2 which may > be buggy to maintain XP support or I tell XP users they are simply out > of luck. Either way I am between a rock and a hard place because next > year it won't be possible to build against new versions of DirectX and > support Windows XP at the same time. > > There is a similar situation going on with the .NET Framework. I > believe Windows XP will support up to .NET 4 but no later. Since XP is > about to be officially dropped that means the new applications written > in Visual Studio 2012 using .NET 5 won't run on Windows XP, but are > Windows 8 ready. Once again the developer is force to sacrifice newer > APIs, libraries and tools to support XP or tell the XP users to just > upgrade. Neither situation is ideal, but is the reason developers get > so frustrated with people who refuse to update for whatever reason. > > It is like this. If we choose to go with Windows Vista, Windows 7, and > Windows 8 people using XP will doubtless bombard the developer for > requests to support XP. If the developer chooses to support XP and > ignore upcoming changes in Windows 8 the developer will get bombarded > by requests from new Windows 8 customers to fix compatibility issues > or to support this or that. Either way can lead to a loss of sales > which isn't good. Its a classic case of damned if you do and damned if > you don't. > > Cheers! > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
