Over the last year or so, I've been running classes for computer newbies with a wide range of vision here in London. Most of them are over 50, and many of them are only taking steps to learn about technology now because their vision loss has reached a point where they can no longer comfortably read print. IE, they don't know how to read Braille because they've never needed to up until this point. But, just because it's not comfortable or easy for them to read print anymore, the vast majority of them will determinedly cling to it until they reach a point where the use of their new technology becomes familiar enough to start to replace it. These people having knowledge of games can be a huge step toward that happening in many cases, because if a computer or a tablet can be for fun sometimes, they've started chipping away at the intimidation that often holds previous generations back from embracing technology. I do what I can to spread the word and use games as tools, but A) I only get to work with a small percentage of the blind people in a single city, and B) I'll be moving on from the job shortly. Point is though, yep, these potential gamers definitely do appreciate stuff in print. Bassed on my experience, they also like audio, though the pressing and distribution of that can get kind of pricy.
Happy to help with proofreading and tweaking anything here, as well as badgering the local blindness organizations to distribute the info. Cheers Scott On 6/19/15, Charles Rivard <[email protected]> wrote: > I would not offer print pamphlets. The selected audience for the > information does not read print. > > --- > Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, > > you! really! are! finished! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "dark" <[email protected]> > To: "Gamers Discussion list" <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 7:15 AM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] braille/large print/other media for audio games > (wasinfo games game engines) > > >> Hi jeremy. >> >> A sort of general physical publication for various blind organizations >> might be a good idea in the future, sort of like a physical version of >> audeasy, but that wasn't the sort of scale I was thinking just as far as >> getting people on board went. >> >> What I was imagining was somethingmore like a general introduction, >> perhaps twop thousand words at most which just explains what audio games >> are, what the bennifits of playing them might be, the differences betwene >> >> audiogames and text games etc. >> >> It might have some examples mentioned but these wouldn't be adverts for >> any specific developers as much as just "shades of doom is a great example >> >> of an fps" type of thing. >> >> i would also not suggest selling it, but having it as a freely available >> informational leaflet who's production is financed by a number of people >> in the community, though whether enough funds could be generated to >> produce sufficient copies would be another question. However if I were a >> person who didn't know about audiogames I am more likely to pick up a free >> >> braille or print leaflet from a table at the next function of blind >> organization x than pay for something about a subject I've never heard of >> >> before. >> >> Of course, if it was successful and people liked it, more specific things >> >> could be done later, but I don't think we're at that point sinse for most >> >> people in places like The Rnib it's just a matter of knowing that >> accessible computer games exist! let alone advertising anything specific. >> >> Beware the Grue! >> >> Dark. >> learn. The world is vast and wondrous strange and there are more things >> benieth the stars than even the archmaesters of the citadel can dream. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jeremy Brown" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 8:26 PM >> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] braille/large print/other media for audio games >> (was info games game engines) >> >> >>> Dark's suggestion of an informational blurb or pamphlet is the place >>> where a number of developers could come together directly. If we >>> formed some sort of organization of our own, that worked with, and/or >>> through the more politically minded organizations, it's possible they >>> might take more notice of us. Also too, defraying cost of printing >>> might be easier if each developer contributed x amount and had x >>> amount of space. It would mean you'd be advertising in some cases >>> with your competition, but, if the real issue is that not enough >>> people know about the market at all, then that might be a way to get >>> info into the community. Audyssey might be a good launch point for >>> such an item, since many developers subscribe. Audyssey has a history >>> of helping blind people connect to game developers, and it's exactly >>> the sort of proactive approach that the political organizations >>> attempt to take. Further, we have developers here from multiple >>> nations, so we could approach visually impaired organizations in >>> multiple countries at once, and show that this is a global phenomenon. >>> If it was sold on the grounds of promoting not only independent >>> visually impaired entrepreneurs, but also the gamers who enjoy their >>> work, it might be able to crack the shell where one or two small >>> developers might not. >>> >>> Just a thought, >>> >>> Jeremy >>> >>> >>> On 6/15/15, [email protected] <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>> Send Gamers mailing list submissions to >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org >>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>> than "Re: Contents of Gamers digest..." >>>> >>>> >>>> Today's Topics: >>>> >>>> 1. Re: info AudioGames Game Engine (dark) >>>> 2. Re: tips for playing bg chess (dark) >>>> 3. Re: tips for playing bg chess (Ron Schamerhorn) >>>> 4. Re: info AudioGames Game Engine (Thomas Ward) >>>> 5. Re: info AudioGames Game Engine (dark) >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 17:27:27 +0100 >>>> From: "dark" <[email protected]> >>>> To: "Gamers Discussion list" <[email protected]> >>>> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] info AudioGames Game Engine >>>> Message-ID: <310941689A6043FBA74A76411331CCD7@ownere8ba8066c> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >>>> reply-type=original >>>> >>>> Hi Knick. >>>> >>>> that is an idea, though reselling is also quite a pain to setup as >>>> well, >>>> particularly sinse in the past when it's been tried with audiogames it >>>> hasn't worked out well. >>>> >>>> All the best, >>>> >>>> Dark. >>>> There is always more to know, more to see, more to learn. The world is >>>> vast >>>> >>>> and wondrous strange and there are more things benieth the stars than >>>> even >>>> the archmaesters of the citadel can dream. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Nick Adamson" <[email protected]> >>>> To: "Gamers Discussion list" <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 4:28 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] info AudioGames Game Engine >>>> >>>> >>>>> An alternative is to set up contacts with resellers around the world >>>>> who >>>>> go to the conventions already but often they take commission. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 15 Jun 2015, at 16:17, dark <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Tom. >>>>>> >>>>>> Conventions might be problematic, partiuclarly sinse they only cover >>>>>> certain geographical regions meaning even if the money was raised to >>>>>> send >>>>>> >>>>>> someone the return on new interest probably wouldn't be worth it. >>>>>> >>>>>> I do wonder however if there is an alternative approach. >>>>>> >>>>>> As I have said before, some of my first pc games were the ones I >>>>>> discovered through whitestick.co.uk, web games like Legend of the >>>>>> green >>>>>> dragon and ashes of angels. I found out about those thanks to a >>>>>> small >>>>>> one line paragraph in the rnib braille advertising leaflet with the >>>>>> silly name of "welcome to a world of" >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm not sure where that add came from, indeed Tom Lorimer the >>>>>> whitestick.co.uk webmaster said he didn't know about it, however it >>>>>> does >>>>>> >>>>>> make me wonder about the uses of promotional literature, particularly >>>>>> >>>>>> for >>>>>> >>>>>> people or organizations who might have reach to people who are only >>>>>> just >>>>>> >>>>>> learning their way around computers. >>>>>> >>>>>> I wonder therefore if it would be worth creating a general audiogames >>>>>> introduction, and paying the smaller amount of money (compared at >>>>>> least >>>>>> to sending someone to a convention), it'd take to get it recreated in >>>>>> braille and large print as well as electronically, and then sending >>>>>> copies of that! to various organizations, conventions etc, for people >>>>>> >>>>>> to >>>>>> >>>>>> pick up, find on a desk etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> such a thing could even be translated into different languages as >>>>>> well. >>>>>> >>>>>> All the best, >>>>>> >>>>>> Dark. >>>>>> There is always more to know, more to see, more to learn. The world >>>>>> is >>>>>> vast and wondrous strange and there are more things benieth the stars >>>>>> than even the archmaesters of the citadel can dream. >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Ward" >>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>> To: "Gamers Discussion list" <[email protected]> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 3:33 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] info AudioGames Game Engine >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Josh, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I agree that going to blind conventions is probably the best way to >>>>>>> market accessible games to the blind community. Unfortunately, we >>>>>>> come >>>>>>> back to the problem of money. A lot of audio game developers are >>>>>>> blind >>>>>>> themselves, are probably only getting SSI for income, so do not have >>>>>>> >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> lot of money to spend on airfare, hotel rooms, and everything else >>>>>>> required for extensive travel to and from various convention >>>>>>> centers. >>>>>>> That means while it might be a good way to promote a product the >>>>>>> game >>>>>>> developer still needs to raise enough cash to actually go to said >>>>>>> conventions in the first place. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 6/15/15, Josh K <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> I think the best way to really get games out there would be to >>>>>>>> attend >>>>>>>> the ACB and nfb conventions and bring them to the attention of many >>>>>>>> many >>>>>>>> blind people and agencies. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> Gamers mailing list __ [email protected] >>>>>>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>>>>>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>>>>>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]. >>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> list, >>>>>>> please send E-mail to [email protected]. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> Gamers mailing list __ [email protected] >>>>>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>>>>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>>>>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]. >>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >>>>>> list, >>>>>> please send E-mail to [email protected]. >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> Gamers mailing list __ [email protected] >>>>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>>>> [email protected]. >>>>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>>>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>>>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]. >>>>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >>>>> list, >>>>> please send E-mail to [email protected]. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 2 >>>> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 17:32:27 +0100 >>>> From: "dark" <[email protected]> >>>> To: "Gamers Discussion list" <[email protected]> >>>> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] tips for playing bg chess >>>> Message-ID: <25ABD9FED6FE4BA28434786208F40FED@ownere8ba8066c> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >>>> reply-type=response >>>> >>>> Hi Josh. >>>> >>>> Effectively your asking how to play chess and that is a complex thing. >>>> Short answr, should you examine the hole board and try to predict what >>>> your >>>> >>>> opponent will do? yes, that is how to play chess. >>>> >>>> This is why I personally cannot play chess examining the board square >>>> by >>>> square on computer, I need the physcial board in front of me. I've >>>> tried >>>> playing computer versions with the actual board, but because nobody is >>>> checking the position I'll usually find something has gone wrong in me >>>> moving peaces and there is a descrepency between me and the computer and >>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>> game has to be abandoned. >>>> >>>> This is another reason I'd love to see a full tactile display. >>>> >>>> In fairness I'll admit I have trouble with spacial comprehention, and >>>> just >>>> as I can't play chess on computer square by square I equally cannot >>>> play >>>> sudocu or boggle type games well either, though obviously lots of >>>> people >>>> can, though I suspect their spacial awareness is better than mine. >>>> >>>> Beware the Grue! >>>> >>>> DArk. >>>> There is always more to know, more to see, more to learn. The world is >>>> vast >>>> >>>> and wondrous strange and there are more things benieth the stars than >>>> even >>>> the archmaesters of the citadel can dream. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Josh K" <[email protected]> >>>> To: "Gamers Discussion list" <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 4:56 PM >>>> Subject: [Audyssey] tips for playing bg chess >>>> >>>> >>>>> hey I would like some tips for playing bg chess. I am totally blind so >>>>> cannot see the screen. I start by moving my pawns out first d2-d4 >>>>> c2-c4 >>>>> and then I try to move out the nights g1-f3 and a bishop c1-e3 after >>>>> first >>>>> >>>>> moving a pawn c2-c4. But then it seems to get complicated. Do I have >>>>> to >>>>> examine the board each move and look at all possible moves of all my >>>>> white >>>>> >>>>> pieces to see which can be captured? also how can I better predict the >>>>> computer's next move computer set to beginner so that I know if say >>>>> the >>>>> white bishop can move forward or should move back and then which way >>>>> forward or back s-w to n-e or n-w to s-e? I feel like I'm missing >>>>> obvious >>>>> >>>>> things like I should have moved a rook two squares over to capture an >>>>> opponents piece but missed it because I thought I should have moved >>>>> the >>>>> night up or back for some reason. >>>>> >>>>> thanks for any help. or is chess just really difficult to play if you >>>>> are >>>>> >>>>> blind and should i stick to cards instead? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> follow me on twitter @joshknnd1982 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> Gamers mailing list __ [email protected] >>>>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>>>> [email protected]. >>>>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>>>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>>>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]. >>>>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >>>>> list, >>>>> please send E-mail to [email protected]. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 3 >>>> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 12:40:31 -0400 >>>> From: Ron Schamerhorn <[email protected]> >>>> To: Gamers Discussion list <[email protected]> >>>> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] tips for playing bg chess >>>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed >>>> >>>> Also there are keystrokes in the BG Chess game to do most of the >>>> options >>>> you mentioned. Suggesting moves, is the piece safe etc. >>>> >>>> Ron >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 4 >>>> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 14:06:33 -0400 >>>> From: Thomas Ward <[email protected]> >>>> To: Gamers Discussion list <[email protected]> >>>> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] info AudioGames Game Engine >>>> Message-ID: >>>> <caafbg11b7rfvrav2yfstwvoyxntydubi4u+n+mha9_zmx-q...@mail.gmail.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >>>> >>>> Hi Dark, >>>> >>>> That might work assuming a game developer can get the blindness >>>> organizations interested in promoting their games or allowing their >>>> clients to see the article on audio games. The problem is I find NFB >>>> and other organizations like it very institutional about various >>>> things and may not be as receptive of audio games as one would like. >>>> Although, my personal experience isn't that extensive I can say I can >>>> recall a few cases where I approached someone on the topic only to get >>>> the brush-off from those kinds of folks. >>>> >>>> For example, several years ago I remember when I was losing my sight I >>>> was sent to a training course on Jaws and other adaptive products. At >>>> the time I had just come from a sighted world of mainstream games so >>>> innocently inquired of the instructor if he knew of an accessible >>>> games =that were Jaws accessible. The reply I got in return was that >>>> computers were used for work and not play. That I shouldn't spend my >>>> time with games and that other junk. I was shocked at that attitude, >>>> and have discovered there are many in the adaptive tech industry with >>>> that same attitude that computers are for work not play mindset. >>>> >>>> I can't say how extensively it runs in the NFB, ACB, and other circles >>>> but my initial encounter with organizations like them was not a >>>> positive one. So brailing up a pamphlet and sending it to the various >>>> organizations may work or it may not depending on how they view >>>> sharing it with their clients. Although, it might be worth a shot for >>>> a developer to try and advertise through those sorts of organizations >>>> as they would be able to get developers in touch with the community >>>> beyond our little audio games community. >>>> >>>> Cheers! >>>> >>>> >>>> On 6/15/15, dark <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> Hi Tom. >>>>> >>>>> Conventions might be problematic, partiuclarly sinse they only cover >>>>> certain >>>>> >>>>> geographical regions meaning even if the money was raised to send >>>>> someone >>>>> the return on new interest probably wouldn't be worth it. >>>>> >>>>> I do wonder however if there is an alternative approach. >>>>> >>>>> As I have said before, some of my first pc games were the ones I >>>>> discovered >>>>> >>>>> through whitestick.co.uk, web games like Legend of the green dragon >>>>> and >>>>> ashes of angels. I found out about those thanks to a small one line >>>>> paragraph in the rnib braille advertising leaflet with the silly >>>>> name >>>>> of >>>>> "welcome to a world of" >>>>> >>>>> I'm not sure where that add came from, indeed Tom Lorimer the >>>>> whitestick.co.uk webmaster said he didn't know about it, however it >>>>> does >>>>> make me wonder about the uses of promotional literature, particularly >>>>> for >>>>> people or organizations who might have reach to people who are only >>>>> just >>>>> learning their way around computers. >>>>> >>>>> I wonder therefore if it would be worth creating a general audiogames >>>>> introduction, and paying the smaller amount of money (compared at >>>>> least >>>>> to >>>>> sending someone to a convention), it'd take to get it recreated in >>>>> braille >>>>> and large print as well as electronically, and then sending copies of >>>>> that! >>>>> >>>>> to various organizations, conventions etc, for people to pick up, find >>>>> >>>>> on >>>>> a >>>>> >>>>> desk etc. >>>>> >>>>> such a thing could even be translated into different languages as >>>>> well. >>>>> >>>>> All the best, >>>>> >>>>> Dark. >>>>> There is always more to know, more to see, more to learn. The world is >>>>> vast >>>>> >>>>> and wondrous strange and there are more things benieth the stars than >>>>> even >>>>> the archmaesters of the citadel can dream. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 5 >>>> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 19:39:22 +0100 >>>> From: "dark" <[email protected]> >>>> To: "Gamers Discussion list" <[email protected]> >>>> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] info AudioGames Game Engine >>>> Message-ID: <84B909259C5C427BB4825ADF89221D66@ownere8ba8066c> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >>>> reply-type=original >>>> >>>> Hi Tom. >>>> >>>> Funny the "computers aren't for play" attitude sinse to be honest I >>>> wouldn't >>>> >>>> have learnt to use the internet properly or navigate correctly with >>>> supernova if it hadn't been for games, ditto with voiceover on the >>>> Iphone >>>> (indeed I specifically bought games to practice with when i got my >>>> Iphone). >>>> >>>> Then of course there is the more recent arguement that audiogames >>>> actually >>>> teach valuable skills, hell the blindsquare satnav now gives >>>> directional >>>> positional audio kews for it's beacons so walking around outside is >>>> geting >>>> more and more like something like Swamp, nice preparation for when the >>>> zombocalypse actually does! happen :D. >>>> >>>> the Rnib are about the same over here as I've said before, they >>>> certainly >>>> have an institutional approach, however they're usual line is "most >>>> blind >>>> people aren't interested in that sort of thing" which is why they only >>>> currently support and promote Azabat sinse it is built to appeal to the >>>> >>>> sort >>>> >>>> of people the Rnib see themselves as catering for. >>>> >>>> I do wonder though if other organizations in the uk would be more >>>> receptive >>>> >>>> such as action for blind people (who had the top ten audiogames a while >>>> ago), or possibly even Guide dogs, although their entertainment side >>>> has >>>> fallen off recently. >>>> >>>> That's why I'd suggest having some sort of braille brochure though, >>>> sinse >>>> obviously if it's not out there people won't know. >>>> >>>> All the best, >>>> >>>> dark. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Subject: Digest Footer >>>> >>>> --- >>>> Gamers mailing list __ [email protected] >>>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>>> [email protected]. >>>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]. >>>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >>>> list, >>>> please send E-mail to [email protected]. >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> End of Gamers Digest, Vol 112, Issue 30 >>>> *************************************** >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> In the fight between you and the world--back the world! Frank Zapa >>> >>> --- >>> Gamers mailing list __ [email protected] >>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>> [email protected]. >>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]. >>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >>> list, >>> please send E-mail to [email protected]. >>> >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ [email protected] >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> [email protected]. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to [email protected]. >> >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2015.0.5961 / Virus Database: 4365/10054 - Release Date: >> 06/19/15 >> > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ [email protected] > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > [email protected]. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to [email protected]. > --- Gamers mailing list __ [email protected] If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [email protected]. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [email protected].
