Hi Jim,
I figured that was the case. I more or less assumed, wrongly perhaps,
that people would know I wasn't talking about Visual Basic or some of
the entry level programming languages as I was comparing SFML and
DirectX from the point of view of C++. I thought I had said as much,
but it is simply a case of getting our wires crossed as I often say.
As far as my comment of you being a beginner that wasn't meant to
state you were exactly a beginner to programing in general. I know you
have lots more experience with Basic and Visual Basic than I do. What
that comment meant was that all of your experience has been with entry
level programming languages like Visual Basic, and very little to do
with more advanced programming languages like C++. In that light
Visual Basic programmers could be classified entry level or beginner
level programming and something like C++  programming could be
classified as experienced level or advanced level programming.That's
all I meant by my statement.
As to your over all point that a new game programmer could write a
game without having to know all the ins and outs of the Win32 API that
is true. That all comes back to the point Philip made that there are
levels of programming one can decide to use. Someone could pick up and
use an entry level llanguage like Python or Visual Basic and
successfully write a game without much difficulty. However, a more
experienced programmer might wish to use a language like C++ which
involves a lot more knowledge of the nuts and bolts of programming and
more hands on low level programming. For example, C++ uses pointers
for memory and data management that doesn't show up in say Visual
Basic or Python for the fact it is a more hands on way of directly
managing the system's memory. New programmers wouldn't want to be
sattled with managing his/her own memory on their own. They'd rather
let something like the .Net, Java, or Python garbage collecter handle
the cunstruction and destruction of memory. I myself enjoy the fact
C++ allows me to manage the memory manually and don't really like
leaving that aspect of programming up to some anonymous garbage
collecter to clean up the memory after me.  However, most new
programmers would not like it very much, because every pointer you
asign must be destroyed manually when it is no longer needed. Failior
to properly destroy a pointer manually will result in huge memory
leaks, and therefore it is left upto more advanced and skilled
programmers.

Cheers!

On 2/17/10, Jim Kitchen <j...@kitchensinc.net> wrote:
> Hi Thomas,
>
> Yes, I am sorry, I didn't realize that you were talking programming only in
> C++.  I thought that you were talking game programming and DirectX in
> general.
>
> Yes, you have explained the win32 api to me before.  It didn't make much
> sense to me though and my point was that one does not need to know what it
> is or how it works to write games.  however I guess like you said, we are
> comparing apples to oranges.
>
> I do not believe though that you should call me a beginner as I have been
> programming since before you were born and I have had many many many
> finished titles out there for years and years and you have what one finished
> title STFC.  Again it is probably apples and oranges or maybe the Titanic
> and the ark.  As you are a properly educated expert and I am a self taught
> hobbyist.
>
> BFN
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Hi Jim,
> Sigh...Yes, but you are comparing apples to oranges here. I was
> talking about programming a game using the C++ libraries for DirectX,
> and you are talking about using DirectX 8 using Visual Basic 6. There
> is a huge difference here in what you need to know to program using
> DirectX.
> The reason you find it so easy to program games using DirectX is
> because Microsoft created a handy little wrapper library called
> dx8vb.dll which handles all of the low level programming and DirectX
> programming for you. All you have to do is setup the proper DirectX 8
> objects and functions, and your in business. Microsoft did something
> quite similar for Visual Basic .Net and C# .Net by adding
> Microsoft.DirectX.dll, Microsoft.DirectX.DirectInput.dll, and
> Microsoft.DirectX.DirectSound.dll for .Net programmers. Again the
> actual coding required for DirectX has been simplified for a new
> programmer using a less complicated language.
> If you were a C++ programmer you would find a huge world of difference
> and understand what I'm talking about in my earlier message. For C++
> developers there is no handy dx8vb.dll library to handle all of the
> low level stuff. That's up to you, the programmer, to write some of
> the low level stuff like creating a class to get the format and size
> of a wav file so you can then load it into a DirectSound buffer. You
> may want to create a sound manager class to wrap the DirectSound
> secondary buffer pointers for easier management etc. It is a totally
> different ball game than the one you've been playing with Visual Basic
> 6.
> As for the Win32 API I believe I've explained this before. It is quite
> simply all of the major headers and libraries required for programming
> Windows applications. For example, if you have ever used kernel32.dll
> for the GetTickCount function then you have used the Win32 API without
> ever knowing it. Visual Basic 6 does use the Win32 API in most of your
> day to day programming, but it is often hidden by or wrapped by
> something else in Visual Basic 6. The bottom line of what I'm saying
> to you is that the reason you and others find Visual Basic 6 so easy
> is because Microsoft intentionally simplified everything to a level an
> average computer user or new programmer can easily understand without
> too much effort. As Philip said before there are levels of programming
> ranging from total beginner, where you are, to very advanced where
> Philip and I am. One can not simply know only Visual Basic, a beginner
> level language, and speak with any authority of how hard or simple say
> C++ is or is not with any skill.
>
> HTH
>
>
>      Jim
>
> Professionals built the Titanic, amateurs built the ark.
>
> j...@kitchensinc.net
> http://www.kitchensinc.net
> (440) 286-6920
> Chardon Ohio USA
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