Hi Philip,

> ... But I would never make any of my games open source
> because of the simple fact that I don't want people to mess around
> with or steal my source code. ...
<snip>

Indeed that is your choice. Actually by using angelscript in BGT you make it 
available to a wide audience for testing 
and thus contributing indirectly to it's development.

I hope I didn't came across as advocating in my original message. I was just 
stating the other side of the argument.
Maybe I was advocating a bit, but that's my choice as well. <smile>

Take care,

Rynhardt

* Philip Bennefall <phi...@blastbay.com> [110123 16:13]:
> Hi Thomas and Rhynhardt,
> 
> I'm neither for or against open source software. I am very thankful
> to those who write open source libraries and allow them to be used
> in commercial applications, as that speeds up my own development by
> about 500 %. But I would never make any of my games open source
> because of the simple fact that I don't want people to mess around
> with or steal my source code. I have spent a considerable sum of
> money outsourcing a lot of the core parts of my game engine and so
> it would be utter foolishness for me to simply throw that money in
> the sea as we say in Sweden. It is for the same reason that I
> protect my sounds from being altered or stolen, because I don't want
> the investments I have made in that department to simply be
> exploited. I'm happy to provide my game engine along with some open
> source components to do trivial things such as my menu class, my
> sound pool class to handle audio environments, my number speaker
> class to intelligently concatenate sound files to have numbers
> spoken, etc etc. But the real code is protected and always will be.
> 
> For my Mac port when the time comes, I will probably be using
> CoreAudio directly. For networking I can stick with what I already
> have, since ENet fits the bill for BGT perfectly and already works
> on Mac OS as far as I'm aware. The same goes for AngelScript.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Philip Bennefall
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rynhardt Kruger"
> <rynkru...@gmail.com>
> To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
> Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 2:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game Engines was Heli
> 
> 
> Hi Thomas and others,
> 
> Just a few points from a probably biased user :-)
> I think the idea of Open Source Software are generally miss understood.
> Part of that may be because of the fact that certain groups prefer
> to call it Free Software, which is associated with
> freeware.
> Open source software is not freeware and will never be. The idea of
> Open Source Software is just that the source code
> should be open and available to any one who would like to study or
> modify it. That is also the reason that many people
> including myself prefer to use Linux. If I want my computer to say
> "hello" every time it begins the boot process, I can
> do so without having to edit some binary file with a hex editor.
> Also it encourage the studying of source code. Thus
> if someone enters the audio gaming community, he/she can immediately
> find out how a game engine works for instance
> without having to reinvent the wheel. Some people think that open
> source software grows faster than other software, but
> that is mostly open for debate.
> Nothing prevents one from selling a program under the GPL, although
> your users must receive the same rights under the
> GPL, and can for instance sell it themselves, modify it or just give
> it away. One thing I've thought  about is to put
> the game itself under an open source license, and sell the sounds
> and/or music.
> 
> Take care,
> 
> Rynhardt
> 
> * Thomas Ward <thomasward1...@gmail.com> [110123 04:53]:
> >Hi Philip,
> >
> >That is very good to know. As I mentioned in my earlier message to the
> >list I'm currently looking at replacing one of my computers with a
> >Mac. Recently my old desktop, we used as a family computer, gave up
> >the ghost over the Christmas holidays. Now, my wife and I are in the
> >process of discussing replacing it. If we do decide to replace it with
> >a Mac I'll be interested in porting my current projects, including the
> >Genesis 3D Engine,  to Mac OS. If you happen to release a copy of BGT
> >for Mac before I get there I'd probably consider buying a license for
> >the port.
> >
> >However, that said the APIs for Linux and the APIs for Mac OS are not
> >that different. For example, I have a rough idea of how I'm going to
> >create the Mac OS and Linux version of the Genesis Engine. I'll begin
> >with writing a middleware library similar to Streemway that wraps
> >OpenAL and loads wav, ogg, and other open source file types and mixes
> >them with OpenAL. For things like threading, serialization, etc I'll
> >use the cross-platform boost library. Finally, input, networking, and
> >the window manager will be handled by SDL 1.2. I believe that this
> >would provide an excellent basis for any game engine targeting the Mac
> >or Linux operating systems.
> >
> >Although, there is an alternative way of handling this. SFML already
> >has a decent networking API, supports OpenAL via sfml-audio, input
> >handling is fine, threading works pretty good on Linux, and the only
> >complaint I have is the window manager. It works fine on Linux, I hear
> >it works fine on Mac, but crashes the OS on Windows. So SFML sounds
> >like the best solution for a Mac specific engine, but I wouldn't
> >consider SFML for a Windows engine based on its buggy window manager.
> >
> >Still I agree with you that at this point Mac is a developers second
> >choice in terms of operating system to support.  While Linux is fine
> >as an operating system most of the Linux users I know left Linux in
> >favor of the Mac. Plus because Mac OS is a commercial operating system
> > the majority of the people using it are willing to pay money for
> >commercial software. All too many Linux users I know are hung up on
> >the free and open source view and absolutely refuse to pay for
> >commercial software in any way, shape, or form. They expect software
> >for Linux to remain free, open source, and without commercial
> >licensing. That is unrealistic considering the fact I have to license
> >music, sounds, and so on that costs me hundreds of dollars per game.
> >The Marxist view that all software should be free, shared, community
> >property is fine to a certain point, but doesn't work if we are
> >dealing with capitalist companies out to make a buck for everything.
> >Therefore since we live in a capitalist society I have to run my
> >software company that way to make a buck myself to continue producing
> >said products.
> >
> >In short, I agree with you. Mac is probably my next choice as well. It
> >has nothing to do with weather I like Linux or not. I've just
> >concluded the money isn't really in it. Between the fact there are
> >less users their and the fact too many are hung up on Marxist idiology
> >it will be very hard to market a commercial product there. If I can
> >produce Linux versions inexpensively and make a few extra on it fine,
> >but Mac and Windows seam to me to be the most financially viable
> >markets long term.
> >
> >HTH
> >
> >
> >On 1/22/11, Philip Bennefall <phi...@blastbay.com> wrote:
> >> Hi Thomas,
> >>
> >> Just to enter in this discussion a little. I am actually
> >considering > buying
> >> a Mac when I have enough money saved up. I'm not very interested
> >in > Linux,
> >> so I believe that when I do eventually begin the work of porting BGT to
> >> another platform it'll be on Mac to start with.
> >>
> >> Kind regards,
> >>
> >> Philip Bennefall
> >
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