Think you hit the nale on the head here. The small number of us will continue
to play advanced games and that'll be that, I guess. Which I suppose is
perfectly fine with me. Means we won't be noticed as much by developers,
although I think I did get the You don't know Jack Jellyvision games
developer's attention the other day via email and Twitter today. I emailed the
general manager of Jellyvision telling him that, mainly, for the most part, the
game can be played with no problems, except the Jack Attack. I also told them
on Twitter and they followed me, after I mentioned it, and I don't think they
follow everyone who follows them. So, I think I at least peaked their interest.
On Feb 7, 2011, at 3:15 PM, Thomas Ward wrote:
> Hi Yohandy,
> I have a few theories what is going on, and these aren't based so much
> on fact but just my experience in dealing with the VI gaming community
> in general.
> First, is probably simply a lack of interest in the types of games
> being presented. I'll take myself for example. I am into mainstream
> games, have played several different mainstream games over the years,
> but something like Rockband or Street Fighter just simply isn't my
> thing. I like adventure games with things like history, treasure
> hunting, puzzle solving, etc which is why I'm writing a game like
> Mysteries of the Ancients in the first place. Games like Street
> Fighter are good games, but I'm not really into that sort of game
> personally. Therefore I really don't have much interest in downloading
> a podcast on it much less running out and buying a copy for myself.
> Second, is accessibility issues. While Street Fighter, Rockband,
> Marvel Verses Capcom, etc are playable it doesn't come easy for most
> blind players. For example, the menus don't talk so you have to learn
> and memorize the menus for those kinds of games. It is opsticals like
> this that put anyone totally blind off from venturing into mainstream
> gaming. In their mind it is only half accessible. When mainstream
> games have talking menus, spoken feedback for this or that, then
> they'll be willing to look at it. Without these accessible features
> that Tank Commander, Shades of Doom, etc have they are of the opinion
> why bother?
> Finally, there is the conceptual and skill level gap between
> mainstream and accessible audio games. As you know mmainstream games
> are written at a skill level, a complexity, far above any audio game
> out there. In that sense the average blind gamer, who maybe doesn't
> know much about mainstream games, is just totally blown away by the
> complexity. It is like overload for him/her since they are absolutely
> ignorent about how to begin playing a game like that. Maybe they
> simply don't have the skills to do it.
> For example, take Mysteries of the Ancients. Right now I'm adding some
> extra features to beta 18 such as timed locks which, to my knowledge,
> has never been done before in an audio game. Hard to believe that
> something that simple has been around for ages in mainstream games,
> but isn't even used in audio games. I could point out hundreds of
> other examples just as simple, but the fact is most of the audio
> gamers out here are clueless when it comes to mainstream games. A game
> like Street Fighter has various complex fighting styles that no audio
> game has come close to remotely matching, and is just so totally
> different from the audio games we have.
> Basically, what I'm saying is you and I are advanced gamers. Most
> blind people are not. They are rather inexperienced, don't know what
> is out there, and maybe don't have the skills to pickup and play
> Street Fighter, MVC, Mortal Kombat, or anything remotely accessible
> for the Play Station, XBox, Wii, etc. They just aren't advanced enough
> to get into it.I'll tell you why I think this way.
> For example, take Shades of Doom. That's a game designed for the
> blind, by a totally blind game developer, and as games goes it is
> pretty simple compared to similar games for the mainstream market. Yet
> I have heard countless people say the game is too complicated, it is
> too confusing, I can't figure out how to play it, you name it. Now, if
> there is a game like that made specifically for the blind and blind
> people can't play it how can we expect them to take a step forward and
> begin playing mainstream games with less aaccessibility features in
> some cases?
> Just some thoughts to think about. I'm not saying that these things
> are necessarily true, but those are my thoughts. People aren't really
> as interested it as you are. I don't know there is a way to increase
> interest in it if their skills are lacking, the games aren't that
> interesting to a person, or they are just too complex for the average
> blind gamer.
> On 2/7/11, Yohandy <yohand...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey guys,
>> Ok I'm gonna go ahead and say it. I find myself getting extremely
>> frustrated with the blind gaming community. Why you ask? ok here goes. I'm
>> sure you guys have noticed I've been putting up some rock band samples up.
>> you've also noticed Clement has been putting up some street fighter IV
>> samples and various other samples. So why is it that when we ask for
>> feedback or comments on these samples we work hard to create, people simply
>> either ignore us completely, or the same 3 or 4 people are the ones to
>> always respond? well you know what I think the reason for that is? simply
>> that the games we post about are mainstream games, not audio games. I've
>> noticed that when a new audio game comes out, even if it's the most
>> simplistic game in existence, everyone's all jumping to download it
>> immediately and there are threads that span hundreds of messages on the
>> subject. But when we post something having to do with console games, the
>> thread dies in a matter of hours. I'm sure Clement has been feeling this
>> frustration as well. it's been leaking through in his emails to the list
>> even if he hasn't mentioned it outright. So my question is this: what must
>> we do to get you guys interested in something other than topspeed 3, or any
>> other audio game for that matter? don't you guys have that spark of
>> curiosity to find out everything there is to find about video games? why is
>> everyone ignoring these games outright? This community has hundreds of
>> members, and only a very limited amount of people even talk about mainstream
>> games. it's all audio games, audio games, and more audio games. there's so
>> much more out there for you to find guys. how can you call yourself a gamer
>> when you aren't even willing to download the files Clement and I put up to
>> at least listen to what these games have to offer? Whenever I put up a rock
>> band sample, I get like 4 or 5 downloads at most. however I rarely get any
>> feedback. I think you guys are just shoving these files in your hard drives
>> and don't even take a listen. if you do, then you have the curiosity of a
>> robot. I don't know about Clement, but I'm not planning on putting anything
>> else up. What's the point? no one seems to care what we have to say, or have
>> any curiosity about console gaming. you guys just keep playing your audio
>> games and keep your closed-minded mentality about game accessibility in
>> general. If you think I'm taking things too far, consider this: remember
>> when Clement and I had that little Street Fighter seminar? I finally thought
>> that people finally had some interest in what we had to say and in the game
>> and such. we got some really good questions, and over all had a really good
>> time. but once that seminar ended, what do you think happened? That's right.
>> absolutely nothing. people basically were like oh ok, that game had awesome
>> sounds and music and such. ok back to playing some tank commander. at least,
>> that's how I feel personally. it was fun as a spur of the moment thing. Now
>> let me ask you this. how many of you, after listening to that seminar went
>> over to gamestop and bought a copy of Street Fighter? or even go to a
>> friend's house and try the game out? My guess is 0. ok rant over. I know
>> this email is a mess lol, but it's just basically me writing down my ideas
>> as they come to mind. take from it what you will. for those of us serious
>> about gaming, we need to get together and figure where we should take it
>> from here. Do we give up, or keep trying? I'm pretty tired of trying my
>> self when everyone's resisting to be honest. Good day everyone.
>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
>> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.