GF, For the engines I run, (Using Hoof Mechanical, or Woodward Electronic) governors the loads are not a big problem, hence my KISS statement about including advance.
IF, this was a motive application, then advance simply for the smoothness, would be a consideration. Greg On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 1:40 PM, GF <[email protected]> wrote: > Greg, > You are right about the fixed load (co generation) However, I would like to > build the set to handle an inconsistent load "if" the machine has to operate > independently. > My experience on the last set I built, "initially operated" independently, > running on natural gas and it had to deal with sudden loads which had a > tendency to pull the rpm down which effected the > frequency. I corrected this problem as best I could with a governor I made, > using two synchronous motors and a "differential assembly" If both motors > ran at the same speed the control shaft remained stationary. One motor was > connected to the output of the alternator while the other was fed from an > inverter with the desired frequency. If the frequency dropped, the out put > arm moved to open the throttle, if the frequency went above the inverter > output,the arm moved to close the throttle. Not having automatic advance > retard would have made the control of the engine less precise. > The field voltage controlling the output voltage was electronic and > automatic. All this was done in the "analogue age" . > After a 10 hour run the mains operated electric clock was only two minutes > slow. > > GF > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Manning <[email protected]> > To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification > <[email protected]> > Sent: Sat, Aug 13, 2011 1:22 pm > Subject: Re: [Gasification] Which engine design might be BEST for woodgas? > > GF, I was speaking of a homemade Spark conversion assembly, no > advance, as you where speaking about a generator (generators run at a > fixed RPM). > the only thing that moves on a generator is the throttle, as to load > conditions, a 2 magnetic pole generator would need the generator's > armature to spin at 3600 rpm, a 4 pole at 1800 a 5 pole at 1200 rpm, > this is assuming 60 hertz, 50 hertz is different. 1500 for 4 pole if > memory serves me correct. > Greg > Advance is NOT needed in Generator conditions. > On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 10:00 PM, GF <[email protected]> wrote: >> Hi Greg, >> Well I do have a Red Lion. "Rate Mutiplier/Divider". The engine is >> complete >> with gearbox and injectors. I wondered if the aftermarket ignition system >> might have >> an electronic automatic advance system which is hopefully adjustable? >> However, Is the ignition system capable of firing 4 spark plugs >> simultaneously? or is a "distributor" included with the kit? Sorry to be >> such a novice. The engine is a four cylinder 1300 cc I believe. >> >> GF >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Greg Manning <[email protected]> >> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification >> <[email protected]> >> Sent: Fri, Aug 12, 2011 9:33 pm >> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Which engine design might be BEST for woodgas? >> >> -Hi GF, List. >> It would make a good candidate rom the standoint of high compression, >> is is a three of four cylinder ? >> The injector pump could simply be removed and a cover plate installed. >> As far as Solid-state timing and CDI spark, We could get "Real Fancy" >> with a PIC or Stamp, but really now, KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid), the >> most relable way would be a hall effect transister and a devide by 4 >> counter (assuming that this engine is a 4 cylinder) the pulse train >> for the counter's clock cycle could be a second hall effect transistor >> counting flywheel teeth (the main sensor would be TDC or what ever >> basic advance you would want in the system. >> The Flywheel tooth sensor would be clocked by the teeth themself's, >> and a devide by "X" counter would count "X" flywheel teeth and then >> advance the devide by 4 counter for spark trigger. >> the entire SI conversion unit could be housed in a WP zinc project box >> (Hammond or equ.) and the hall effect transistors are available from >> most electronics supply houses or Woodward (used on the L or M series >> position controlers). >> The entire unit (trigger assy), NOT CDI or coil packs or plug >> conversions, should cost under 20 bucks, the rest would be in the >> 100-250 area. >> Getting a set of injectors from the scrapyard would save on design >> cost of the sparkplug conversion, by using the spare injector bodies >> as the "meat" of the plug converters. >> Sparkplugs, I would assume that a 1" (25mm) reach plug wold be required. >> Champion has a "find by type" application >> >> http://www.championsparkplugs.com/search_char.asp?threadSize=14mm&hexSize=&gap=&seatType=gasket&terminalType=&heatRange=&reach=25.4mm+%281%22%29&resistor=&action.x=44&action.y=14 >> (watch for word wrap on the above) >> Greg >> On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 7:23 PM, GF <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Greg, >>> I have an old complete Rabbit Diesel engine (early version).Do you think >>> this would make a suitable candidate for conversion to "Wood GAS" >>> for driving a 15kw alternator? If so what solid state ignition system >>> should >>> I substitute for the injector pump? >>> >>> GF >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Greg Manning <[email protected]> >>> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification >>> <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Thu, Aug 11, 2011 7:49 pm >>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Which engine design might be BEST for >>> woodgas? >>> >>> Greetings Pete, and list. >>> Large piston, long stroke (slow RPM), many cylinder (8+), high >>> compression engines, are the best Candidates >>> A 16 cylinder 1000 CID 15 to 1 Compression, 5" + stroke would be ideal. >>> Caterpillar makes a Really Nice 3412. remove the injectors, double the >>> headgaskets, re-lash the valves for the higher head height, install >>> SI unit in place of the injector pump... would be fantastic !!!! >>> anyone got a cool 40 grand kicking around for the engine ?? >>> Greg Manning >>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Pete & Sheri <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Since folks are currently commenting on their favorite exotic engine, >>>> maybe >>>> it would be worthwhile to examine the whole field of “funny” engines >>>> that >>>> have appeared and disappeared over the years as candidates for the >>>> unique >>>> properties of producer gas/woodgas, etc. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Of course, I have my own favorite funny engine, invented by the brother >>>> of >>>> a >>>> co worker, but I will not burden you all with that one for now. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> There may even be some value in imagining a ground-up engine design that >>>> would be IDEAL for our fuel. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Pete Stanaitis >>>> >>>> ------------------ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Gasification mailing list >>>> >>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org >>>> >>>> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: >>>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> Regards, >>> Greg Manning, >>> Brandon, Manitoba, Canada >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gasification mailing list >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>> [email protected] >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>> >>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org >>> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: >>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gasification mailing list >>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>> [email protected] >>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>> >>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org >>> >>> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: >>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ >>> >>> >> -- >> Regards, >> Greg Manning, >> Brandon, Manitoba, Canada >> _______________________________________________ >> Gasification mailing list >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >> [email protected] >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org >> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: >> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Gasification mailing list >> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >> [email protected] >> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org >> >> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: >> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ >> >> > -- > Regards, > Greg Manning, > Brandon, Manitoba, Canada > _______________________________________________ > Gasification mailing list > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Gasification mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ > > -- Regards, Greg Manning, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
