Fluidized bed gasification will not produce good quality gas because of the low
bed temperature. For powder/small size bio mass, entrained flow gasification is
idle. In entrain flow gasification temperatures are >1200 Celsius.
K V Narayana
On Friday, 29 November 2013 12:31 AM,
"[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Fluidised Bed Reactor (Lloyd Helferty)
2. Re: Fluidised Bed Reactor (Doug)
3. Re: Fluidised Bed Reactor ([email protected])
4. Re: Fluidised Bed Reactor (Kevin C)
5. Re: Fluidised Bed Reactor ([email protected])
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 16:49:54 -0500
From: Lloyd Helferty <[email protected]>
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
<[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Fluidised Bed Reactor
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
George and Doug,
Try: Syngas International, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada [Sorry, but I
don't have a website.]
I was once told that they have a "fluidized bed gasifier". Except for
them, I have not really heard of the technology (most Fluidized Bed
systems are Pyrolysis systems [designed to make liquids] and not gasifiers).
I also knew of EnergyQuest Inc from Nevada, but the last time I
checked, their website was for sale.
Perhaps these guys have something?
www.eng.uwo.ca/icfar/ <http://www.eng.uwo.ca/icfar/>
Regards,
Lloyd Helferty, Engineering Technologist
Principal, Biochar Consulting (Canada)
www.biochar-consulting.ca
48 Suncrest Blvd, Thornhill, ON, Canada
905-707-8754
CELL: 647-886-8754
Skype: lloyd.helferty
Steering Committee coordinator
Canadian Biochar Initiative (CBI)
President, Co-founder & CBI Liaison, Biochar-Ontario
National Office, Canadian Carbon Farming Initiative (CCFI)
Organizing team member, 2013 N/A Biochar Symposium:
www.carbon-negative.us/symposium
Member of the Don Watershed Regeneration Council (DWRC)
Manager, Biochar Offsets Group:
http://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=2446475
Advisory Committee Member, IBI
http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1404717
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=42237506675
http://groups.google.com/group/biochar-ontario
http://www.meetup.com/biocharontario/
http://www.biocharontario.ca
www.biochar.ca
"Technology is only a tool. Sustainability is determined not by the the
individual technologies, but rather how -- and even whether -- we decide to use
them."
- Lloyd Helferty
On 2013-11-21 8:55 PM, Tom Reed wrote:
> Dear All:
>
> For a moment I thought we were talking about water beds being gasified...
>
> Not a pretty picture!
>
> Tom Reed
>
> Thomas B Reed
> 280 Hardwick Rd
> Barre, MA 01005
> 508 353 7841
>
>> On Nov 21, 2013, at 3:24 PM, Doug <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Gasification Colleagues,
>>
>> Can any one offer George a lead on who might be able to supply him with a
>> small Fluidized bed Gasifier please?
>> Doug Williams,
>> Fluidyne.
>>
>>
>> Hi George,
>>
>> I don't follow Fluidized bed gasification technology, so have sent your
>> request to the Gasification List where you may be pointed in the right
>> direction.
>> Regards,
>> Doug Williams,
>> Fluidyne.
<snip>
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 16:23:21 +1300
From: Doug <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Fluidised Bed Reactor
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Lloyd, Ling He, and Gasification Colleagues,
I appreciate your interest in the request from George which I hope he is
following up from your kind replies. One can only guess at the size of his
needs bearing in mind these are usually quite big systems. Maybe George can
follow up and advise us of exactly what he wants one for, so appropriate advise
can be given.
Fluidized beds certainly qualify as Pyrolysis systems, but a lot of effort has
been expended in the hope they could be kidded into creating a gas free of
condensible hydrocarbons. They can certainly make a large volume of gas fast,
but never without extensive gas cleaning. An obvious choice is to develop and
maximise their condensate production for further processing into liquid fuels
and chemical feed stock, and use the gas straight into a boiler. Having said
that, developers promoting this process seem to have a high turnover rate, and
the same gear turns up under another name once all the hype and interest dies
on the originating project.
Regards,
Doug Williams,
Fluidyne.
> George and Doug,
>
> Try: Syngas International, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada [Sorry, but I
> don't have a website.]
> I was once told that they have a "fluidized bed gasifier". Except for
> them, I have not really heard of the technology (most Fluidized Bed
> systems are Pyrolysis systems [designed to make liquids] and not gasifiers).
> I also knew of EnergyQuest Inc from Nevada, but the last time I
> checked, their website was for sale.
>
> Perhaps these guys have something?
> www.eng.uwo.ca/icfar/ <http://www.eng.uwo.ca/icfar/>
>
>
> Lloyd Helferty, Engineering Technologist
> Principal, Biochar Consulting (Canada)
> www.biochar-consulting.ca
> 48 Suncrest Blvd, Thornhill, ON, Canada
> 905-707-8754
> CELL: 647-886-8754
> Skype: lloyd.helferty
> Steering Committee coordinator
> Canadian Biochar Initiative (CBI)
> President, Co-founder & CBI Liaison, Biochar-Ontario
> National Office, Canadian Carbon Farming Initiative (CCFI)
> Organizing team member, 2013 N/A Biochar Symposium:
> www.carbon-negative.us/symposium
> Member of the Don Watershed Regeneration Council (DWRC)
> Manager, Biochar Offsets Group:
> http://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=2446475
> Advisory Committee Member, IBI
> http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1404717
> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=42237506675
> http://groups.google.com/group/biochar-ontario
> http://www.meetup.com/biocharontario/
> http://www.biocharontario.ca
> www.biochar.ca
>
> "Technology is only a tool. Sustainability is determined not by the the
> individual technologies, but rather how -- and even whether -- we decide to
> use them."
> - Lloyd Helferty
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 02:55:18 -0500 (EST)
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected], [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Fluidised Bed Reactor
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Doug and all,
Would some sort of a high temp molecular cracker be a good companion
to create a quality gas from a fluidised bed? Possibly some steam and / or
preheated air.involved? Seems if you wrapped the exhaust back through the
hottest part of the flame in a reactor tube this can be accomplished.
Sorry but I have been kinda outta the loop for a while.
Dan Dimiduk
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 06:54:25 -0800
From: Kevin C <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Fluidised Bed Reactor
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
format="flowed"
Dear Dan
Quoting [email protected]:
> Doug and all,
> Would some sort of a high temp molecular cracker be a good companion
> to create a quality gas from a fluidised bed? Possibly some steam and / or
> preheated air.involved? Seems if you wrapped the exhaust back through the
> hottest part of the flame in a reactor tube this can be accomplished.
> Sorry but I have been kinda outta the loop for a while.
# Start by appreciating the two Fundamental Rules of Thermodynamics
and Thermo Chemistry:
Fundamental Rule #1: You can't get something for nothing
Fundamental Rule #2: As a matter of fact, you can't even break even.
For example, the reaction
C + O2 --> CO2 (`1)
is strongly exothermic, and gives off about 14,000 BTU per pound of
carbon that is oxidized.
If there was insufficient O2, and the C was only burned to CO, as follows:
C + 1/2O2 --> CO (2)
then only abut 4,000 BTU would be released per pound of carbon.
If we wanted to reverse reaction #1, we would have to put back 14,000 BTU/Lb C
OR, in the case of a gasifier, where the reaction
CO2 + C --> 2 CO (3)
is desired, we would have to "put back" energy as follows:
14,000 + 0 --> 2x4,000 + "X"
14,000 --> 8,000 + "X"
and it is obvious that "X" is 6,000 BTU, in order to respect
Fundamental Rule #1
"Molecular Crackers" and "Catalysts" do indeed work, but only when the
fundamental need to add or remove energy from a reaction is respected.
As long as the "fundamental need for an energy balance" is respected,
then many things are possible.
Best wishes,
Kevin
>
> Dan Dimiduk
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 10:51:31 -0500 (EST)
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Fluidised Bed Reactor
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Kevin .
What sort of reaction could be expected if we applied the high temperature
exhaust from an IC engine into a "reactor" containing biomass and at the
same time reheated the "reactor" using some of the volatile vapors so
produced? perhaps we could also ionize the vapors produced within the reactor
to
above 5000 deg. which should yield a relatively low tar stream of gas
.some of which could fuel the IC engine.
This does not compromise the laws of Thermodynamics.
GF
In a message dated 11/28/2013 9:55:19 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
Dear Dan
Quoting [email protected]:
> Doug and all,
> Would some sort of a high temp molecular cracker be a good companion
> to create a quality gas from a fluidised bed? Possibly some steam and /
or
> preheated air .involved? Seems if you wrapped the exhaust back through
the
> hottest part of the flame in a reactor tube this can be accomplished.
> Sorry but I have been kinda outta the loop for a while.
# Start by appreciating the two Fundamental Rules of Thermodynamics
and Thermo Chemistry:
Fundamental Rule #1: You can't get something for nothing
Fundamental Rule #2: As a matter of fact, you can't even break even.
For example, the reaction
C + O2 --> CO2 (`1)
is strongly exothermic, and gives off about 14,000 BTU per pound of
carbon that is oxidized.
If there was insufficient O2, and the C was only burned to CO, as follows:
C + 1/2O2 --> CO (2)
then only abut 4,000 BTU would be released per pound of carbon.
If we wanted to reverse reaction #1, we would have to put back 14,000
BTU/Lb C
OR, in the case of a gasifier, where the reaction
CO2 + C --> 2 CO (3)
is desired, we would have to "put back" energy as follows:
14,000 + 0 --> 2x4,000 + "X"
14,000 --> 8,000 + "X"
and it is obvious that "X" is 6,000 BTU, in order to respect
Fundamental Rule #1
"Molecular Crackers" and "Catalysts" do indeed work, but only when the
fundamental need to add or remove energy from a reaction is respected.
As long as the "fundamental need for an energy balance" is respected,
then many things are possible.
Best wishes,
Kevin
>
> Dan Dimiduk
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