Dear all,
This excellent reply below came from Rolf. Thank you!!
Pictures only after 6 January, but by then I am in Africa and might not
remember to request that Rolf send them. Together, we should be able to
get this worked out.
We definitely should have some other people replicating this and
suggesting solutions for char removal, etc. And there should be some
examination of the pyrolyzed log concerning the char in the center
verses the char at the edges, and % yield (by weight).
Paul
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: [email protected]
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: www.drtlud.com
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: Whole log pyrolysis for char production was Re:
[Gasification] Wood heating in the UK - whole log gasification
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2013 08:50:06 +0100
From: energiesnaturals <[email protected]>
Reply-To: energiesnaturals <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Hallo Paul,
Thanks for your interest in our living room stove/boiler!
Because that's what it is.
I build this one and quite a few more many years ago in the pre pellet area.
It is not really a big thing but just what i said in my 1. Description
for Ken.
An airtight firebox with controlled primary and secondary air, both
preheated by the non insulated air and water xchanger above the burning
chamber.
The primary 60% is used to regulate the gasification ( remember it is an
all night heater on one log) and the secondary actually burns the
develloping gas.
The escape hole is central in the dome. The admission pipes of 2.air are
offset and aimed at a 30 deg.downwards to create a turbulance and thus
allow for a quite complete combustion before the gas leaves the hot
area. We use mainly white pine, p.halepensis, airdried or so-so and we
clean the conducts every 2. year or so, it burns so clean.
After 1-3 h, depending on the log, you can find the remaining carbon in
more or less the shape of the log.
We do not use the char at present, cause it would be a mess to take it
out inside the living room...,but if we put in the last log around
midnight and close all the 1. And most of the 2nd air once it is lit, we
are left with a good bed of embers for toasting our breakfast bread.
If our aim was to produce char , i should have incorporated a movable
floor( no grate) to discharge it into a cooling device below or yes a
grate and create a repeating cycle without the need to light the batch
every time.
(Un-)luckily i cannot provide any pictures right now, because we spend a
wonderful holydays at our doughter's in Budapest.
But if you want some, tell me after the 6th next year.
B.r.
Rolf
Paul Anderson <[email protected]> escribió:
Dear Rolf, (and hello to Greg!!)
I am very interested in your method of whole log gasification. In
particular, I am interested in your statement that the pyrolysis occurs
first (or mostly first is fine), leaving the char to either be consumed
(char gasified) or removed. My interest is in removing / saving the
char for a variety of other purposes, including possible use as biochar.
(I am interested in using the heat, but that can be treated as a
separate topic.)
Therefore, I am sending this message to the Biochar Listserv. But
because relatively few people subscribe to both lists, I (and Ron Larson
and Tom Miles) will relay your reply to the Biochar List. Eventually
these messages could be taken off of the Gasification List and just
continued with the Biochar list, but let's see what develops.
Could you please provide some:
some photos,
construction plans if available,
and some data on what percentage of char is yielded from the dry
weight of the feedstock logs.
I am content with using cordwood that is smaller than the 45 cm diameter
that you mention, so any comments about the good or bad of using 10 cm
or 25 cm diameter feedstock would be appreciated.
Although as you say it is "a tad late", I will count your message and
replies among my most treasured presents received this year for Christmas!!
Paul
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:[email protected]
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:www.drtlud.com
On 12/26/2013 5:16 PM, energiesnaturals wrote:
Merry Christmas Ken and list ( I am aware that I am a tad late)
One way to burn whole logs like we do (45cm across x 55 cm long) in an
efficient way is to build a well closed ,dome shaped burning chamber
out of 15 cm fire brick and have individually regulated, preheated
primary and 2,dary air , at least 2 pipes either side.
You build up afire with kindling as you describe it and after 15 min
you can add an entire log of pitchy pine and it will first gasify
very nicely and than burn the charcoal if you want.
The secret is to keep the walls of the combustion chamber warm and do
not use them as heat xchangers!
You build a convenient xchanger above it and use the hot exhaust gas.
Build it large enough to reduce the exhaust temp to 90 deg C or less
and you will be way above 50 % eff. Ours has been working for 20+
years and is still doing fine with 2 mm black steel pipes.
We never cut anything below 55 cm long and never split anything below
45 cm, believe me or come and see!
Cheers and a happy new year
Rolf
Enviado desde Samsung tablet
Ken Boak <[email protected]> escribió:
Greg
Thanks for sharing.
I want to try a few ideas for myself to see if this is indeed possible
on the small split logs I can produce locally.
Our heating needs, and indeed modest on account of the mild climate
here, but I would like to find an efficient solution for all the
thousands of acres of neglected coppiced hardwood. Cast iron
victorian stoves may be quaint, but I am sure there are ways to
improve the overall efficiency with radical redesign.
The main burner/heat exchanger on our 24kW gas boiler is no bigger
than a gallon paint tin. Perhaps there is design lesson to be learned
here
Anything to reduce mechanical handling and processing of wood fuels
has to be a step in the right direction
Happy New Year
Ken
On 26 December 2013 19:22, Greg Manning <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Greetings Ken, and list members.
Ken, I'm going to point you to a video of the "underside" of a
whole log (or split) "cordwood as we call it here" stove that is a
downdraft gasifier.
I can speak at length privately, however only somewhat on list, as
this is a proprietary design.
Here's the link to the video:
http://youtu.be/DNYCfgEdYpg
Greg Manning
On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 12:59 PM, Ken Boak <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Happy Christmas to the gasification list.
At this time of year, during the festive holiday season, I get
a bit more time to manage the running of our woodstove, as it
rapidly warms the room and produces a cheery effect.
Our property is fairly conventionally heated by natural gas,
but a few years back, I took the decision to invest in a
woodstove with back-boiler, to provide an alternative or
back-up to the gas fired system.
The woodstove has a flat steel tank at the rear, the "back
boilerr", in place of a couple of the firebricks lining. This
circulates heated water entirely by the thermosyphon principle
to a radiator located in the bedroom/workroom directly above
the stove. So in effect the stove heats the living
room/kitchen area directly, and the room upstairs by
circulating hot water.
No electricity is required for circulation, and if worse-case
we had an extended power outage, this stove would provide heat
and comfort in the two main occupied areas of the house.
Stoking it and attending it is often more interesting than
what is being shown on TV!
With a few days off work, I have had time to monitor the stove
and make some assessments of its overall performance. Its a
fairly traditional stove, a rectangular box,, made from
bolted together cast iron panels and partly lined with
firebrick. It's described as a multifuel stove - having been
supplied with a cast iron removable grate for burning coal -
which is not used when burning wood. It's approximately 24"
wide, 12" deep and 18" tall.
In the UK, a common size for firewood logs, intended for the
domestic woodstove is about 10" (254mm) long, and equal to a
1/4 round taken from a limb that may have been 5 or 6" in
diameter. The reason for this is that there is a lot of
coppiced hardwood, which has become mis-managed in the last 20
years, so there are a lot of trees with 6" diameter shoots.
The popularity of the "firewood processor" machine, means
that a lot of this wood is now coming on the market as
domestic firewood, and sold to suburbanites at vastly inflated
prices (about $0.50 per kilo).
I am burning a mixture of kiln dried Silver Birch, and air
dried other species which includes ash, oak and sweet
chestnut. The silver birch splits well and makes excellent
kindling. One log is split into 8 or 10 kindling sticks and
these are built into a pyramid around 2 or 3 sheets of
scrunched up newspaper. Lighting is quick and easy - as the
birch is kiln dried, and within 5 minutes you will have a
roaring fire and the larger logs can be added.
The logs have an average weight of approximately 1 kg. I have
found that a normal burn rate of these is two per hour. I
burn two at a time, and each hour, add a further two to the
burning char bed from the previous logs. With firewood having
a calorific value of approximately 4kWh/kg - I estimate the
fuel input is in the order of 8 to 10kW.
Of course, with a traditional stove, so much of the heat
energy is lost up the chimney, and goes to create the draft.
The efficiency of the stove, might be in the region of 50% -
somewhat better than the open wood fire. It occurred to me
that by way of a 2 stage gasification process, it would be
possible to increase the overall system efficiency, resulting
in less wood consumption, or more heat output per log.
This leads to a question - is it possible to design a gasifier
aimed at handling whole log gasification - where a log is 10"
long and no more than 6" across? Can you recreate the
temperatures, turbulence and reactants, found within the
combustion zone of the woodstove, and use this to thermally
process a single firewood log, at the rate of one every 30
minutes or so?
I've had some ideas on how this can be done, effectively using
a length of 6" diameter stovepipe/fluepipe to make a compact
gasifier. Logs would be loaded in from the top, and the
length of the pipe chosen to perhaps hold 4 logs at any time -
about 1m (40") tall. The bottom log would sit in the
combustion zone - so the end of this log is constantly under
the action of the air nozzles. The logs above are subjected to
the elevated temperatures and begin to pyrolise, char and
split on their descent down the tube.
Beneath the combustion zone would be a fairly conventional
hearth, and reduction zone, with the char supported by a grate
below that. For an overall idea of the system - think of HS
Mukundas open top gasifier.
Use of twin-wall stainless flue pipe would allow the air to be
pre-heated in the outer annulus - adding to the overall
efficiency. The hot syn-gas could be burned in whatever
appropriate burner geometry deemed necessary for either
radiant space heating or water heating with a suitable heat
exchanger coil.
I hope to try to build a prototype of this over the next 10
days (a working gasification holiday?) and to see whether a
log can be reduced in this manner. If all that is needed is
heat, then the restrictions to produce a tar free gas need not
apply. If one can use whole logs, without having to resort to
woodchip - then this will be a considerable saving in
mechanical handling and wood processing.
At the end of the day - this gasifying stove needs to be as
simple to operate as the existing woodstove. Reloading with a
couple of logs each hour, and no sophisticated need for fan-
forced draft or electricity to operate. Draft would come from
the chimney as per now - about 25 to 30 feet, 6" diameter.
If anyone has experience of something similar - please let me
know.
Happy Holidays
Ken
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