Dear James
It is my understanding that if Chlorine is present in a "biomass pyrolysis
situation", the presence of dioxins is virtually guaranteed.
For example, if yak or cattle dung, chicken or feedlot manure, or salt water
driftwood are pyrolysed or partially burned, there will be dioxins in the
resulting pyrolysis gases or smoke.
QUANTITATIVE testing for dioxins could be very expensive, as you suggest.
However, QUALITATIVE testing can be very low cost. Simply heat a copper wire
red hot in the presence of the gas being tested for dioxins, when chlorine
gas or chlorofluorocarbon refrigerants are known to be absent. If dioxins
are present, the flame turns green or blue-green.
Best wishes,
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Joyce" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 2:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Clean Air Regulation requirements imposed
Thanks for your input Artem and Leland.
Leland we are working from a source separated feedstock ... but of course
no separation method is every perfect. As far as air toxics I think I will
start with the argument that if we get below the detection limit for a
given species when using good quality industrial analysers (not research
lab instruments) then our job is done.
On a related note we normally use CO as an operational performance
indicator for all hydrocarbon derived compounds... in our systems it is by
far the most prevalent residual gas species and in my experience is that
is the last compound (apart from soot) to be oxidised completely in a
biomass flue gas ... is that the experience shared by others ?
One aspect we may have to face is questions about dioxins. We do all the
right things to avoid formation in terms of feedstock selection and
operating temperatures/residence times ... however we have not done actual
measurements. I am told that Dioxin measurements are around $3000/analysis
in Australia ... is that the case elsewhere ? That makes performance
data collection prohibitively expensive. What are others doing for Dioxin
analysis ?
Artem, bag filtering at 600 deg C is interesting ... it keeps you well
above the Dioxin formation temperature range ... I could not see much
detail on your site. Can you provide any more information on this ? Are
you referring to Cerafume bags like those described here:
http://www.albkleinco.com/cerafume-high-temperature-gas-filters/
Regards,
James
-----Original Message-----
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 14:50:23 +0200
From: "Artem Filimonov - TVT" <[email protected]>
Dear Sirs,
It is a really interesting discussion. I haven?t written yet. But I want
to share with all of you information regarding a fumes treatment part. As
you can see in signature the company name we deal with fumes treatment
units. We work mainly in renewable energy field such as gasification
offering our systems to clean the fumes. This is our main archived goals:
- Bag filtering systems, emissions < 1mg/Nmc, flue gas flow
temperature 600 ?C;
- A unique filtering system to DeDust ? DeNOx ? DeSOx, direct
dedusting at temperature 350 - 400 Celsius degree;
- Heat recovery systems.
Please be free to contact me for any issue,
Best regards,
Artem Filimonov
TVT Termoventiltecnica S.r.l.
Via Lo Stradone, 7
31050 Ponzano Veneto (TV)
Tel <tel:%2B39%200422%20609%20110> +39 0422 609 110 Fax
<tel:%2B%2039%200422%20612%20633> + 39 0422 612 633
Da: Gasification [mailto:[email protected]]
Per conto di [email protected]
Inviato: luned? 23 giugno 2014 0.35
A: [email protected]
Oggetto: Re: [Gasification] Clean Air Regulation requirements imposed on
Waste to Energy Plants
This standard is not uncommon and most of it is just verbiage
to cover as many sources as possible. If below detection limit, or not in
the input gas, then it complies. The measurement is very expensive using
standard US EPA
methodologies, but there is equipment that can be used to detect below the
standard methods of analysis and costs around the same cost as one
comprehensive gas analysis, which could be
$35-60k in US terms.
The best way to comply is to remove as many of the contaminants
as possible before the fume incinerator or flare. I can go into more
detail, and indeed there may be a very inexpensive way of complying
if they would accept it, but I don't do it for free.
Sincerely,
Leland T. "Tom" Taylor
Thermogenics Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: James Joyce < <mailto:[email protected]>
[email protected]>
Sent: Sat, Jun 21, 2014 4:36 pm
Subject: [Gasification] Clean Air Regulation requirements imposed on Waste
to Energy Plants
Some questions for the group. We have been asked to comply to the
following regulation regarding operation of our thermal oxidiser. My
questions are:
1. Can any technology anywhere in the world claim to comply to this
regulation ? For example 99.99% destruction efficiency means that 100
ppmw of say formaldehyde in your process off-gas has to be reduced below
0.01 ppmw, which I am sure is well below the detection limit of available
detection devices. How you demonstrate 99.9999% removal is another matter
again.
2. How many pyrolysis plants are using the nuclear fission reactions
that would be necessary to destroy the metals in their list !
3. What work around are people using to deal with emissions
regulations that appear impossible to comply with ?
..... snipped
_______________________________________________
Gasification mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
[email protected]
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
_______________________________________________
Gasification mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
[email protected]
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
