Dear List Members, this has been a very interesting and informative discussion. We have developed a TLUD charring kiln for agri-waste, leaf litter from forests and avenues, and urban cumbustible garbage. It produces powdery charcoal which burns absolutely without smoke (i.e. no volatiles). I was wondering, if it can be used in the steel industry. Yours A.D.Karve
On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 6:40 PM, Thomas Reed <[email protected]> wrote: > All: > > I'm not sure whether we have connected TLUD charcoal with the rest of this > discussion. > > If you make a pile of dry wood and light it ON TOP it will make charcoal > quite efficiently (20%?), because the first layer on top starts burning the > cellulose in the second layer and the combustible gases (CO, H2, CH4) from > the cellulose PROTECT the first layer charcoal. > > If you do this in a closed container, you can run a generator from the > Cell-Gas and have electric power as a by-product of the charcoal making. > > Conventional charcoal making at typically 400C leaves a LOT of volatiles in > the charcoal. The TLUD charcoal reaches temperatures of 500-800C, depending > on air thruput, natural or forced draft. So you can control the quality of > the TLUD charcoal if you make it in a tin can, garbage can or retort. > > A Win, Win, win situation. > > Tom > > Thomas B Reed > 280 Hardwick Rd > Barre, Ma 01005 > 508-353-7841 > >> On Aug 15, 2014, at 7:57 AM, Peter Davies <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Geoff, >> >> We had the privilege of being closely involved in a steel industry study and >> pilot trial addressing these questions a few years ago, we provided the >> protocols and plantation sourced raw wood for charcoal production in >> existing coke ovens and ultimately supplies of charcoal from a range of >> species through our own retorts. These charcoal samples were then used in a >> test blast furnace owned by BHP/Bluescope Steel which modeled exactly the >> behavior of the production ones in use. >> >> The results were outstanding. Renewable carbon from these sources >> substantially outperformed fossil sources in both quality of end product and >> efficiency of production, I believe the figure was close to a 40% production >> enhancement due to the higher reactivity of the wood charcoal. The key >> though is in obtaining sustainable sources in the volumes required. I recall >> a figure of 1 million tonnes of wood charcoal for the local steel producers >> which were themselves <1% of the global industry. >> >> It can be done under the right circumstances, much more so for steel >> recycling operations, and there are many smaller steel producers who could >> benefit where good local biomass resources exist and are well managed. The >> char though has to be >80% fixed carbon. We have found our gasifiers ideal >> for char of the this quality, both in what they produce directly and in the >> ability to cleanly operate integrated high temperature char retorts. >> >> Peter >> >> >> >>> On 15/08/2014 3:01 PM, Geoff Thomas wrote: >>> , >>>> On 15/08/2014, at 4:00 AM, [email protected] >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Today's Topics: >>> Hi People, i had a question the other day about Coal being the only way to >>> make Steel, from my friend GeoffH, i am putting the question below, it is >>> in two parts, and my answer below that, - displaying my ignorance, - >>> particularly if gasified waste would reach the high temperature required, - >>> I realise Charcoal does, and also the aluminium reaction I mentioned, but >>> am personally skating on very thin ice re temperature. >>> >>> Please comment, I believe it is an important area of discussion in the >>> gasification arena, - PS, I have a thick skin :) >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Geoff Thomas. >>> >>> >>> >>> "Had a discussion with someone about the concept of 100% renewables as to >>> whether renewable could substitute for coal in steelmaking. >>> Well, it seems coal is important not only for generating very high >>> temperatures, but also for the chemical use of carbon monoxide in >>> extracting the iron from iron ore. >>> There are alternatives - maybe - such a DRI and 'sponge iron'. Hydrogen >>> can be used instead of carbon monoxide but is so much more expensive. >>> The Comments listed at the end of this article (on the Net) are insightful. >>> Interested in other people's comments on steel production vis-à-vis >>> renewable energy. >>> Cheers, >>> GeoffH >>> >>> http://theenergycollective.com/robertwilson190/308896/explosive-growth-steel-production-china-why-it-matters >>> The Explosive Growth of Steel Production in China: Why It Matters >>> Posted November 27, 2013 >>> Keywords: Carbon and De-carbonization, Energy Security, Tech, >>> Sustainability, Coal, Environmental Policy, China, Energy, Energy and >>> Economy, Energy Collective Exclusive, Fuels, china, industry growth, steel, >>> The Energy Transition >>> China and Steel Growth >>> There is no material more fundamental to industrial civilization than >>> steel. Modern buildings, ships, cars, planes and bridges would all be >>> unthinkable without steel, and as pointed out by Allwood and Cullen in >>> their fine recent book on materials production we currently have no viable >>> substitute materials that could perform steel's multiple functions. We are >>> still very much living in the iron age. >>> Global production of steel has now reached almost 1.5 billion tonnes each >>> year. The geographic make up of steel production however has changed >>> profoundly in the last decade. In the year 2000 China produced 15% of the >>> world's steel. Today almost half of the world's steel is made in China, >>> with Chinese steel production increasing by over 500% since 2000. The >>> astonishing levels of steel consumption in China is illustrated by the fact >>> that 60% of rebar, used in buildings to reinforce concrete, that is >>> produced each year is now consumed in China. >>> Energy requirements of steel manufacturing in China >>> Last year China produced 708 million tonnes of steel. On average each tonne >>> of steel produced in China requires the equivalent of 0.69 tonnes of coal >>> in energy consumption. In other words China's steel industry consumes the >>> equivalent of 500 million tonnes of coal each year, and this being China >>> more or less all of the energy used to make steel comes from coal. China's >>> steel industry consumes almost 7% of the world's coal, and if China's steel >>> industry was a country it would rank 6th globally in total primary energy >>> consumption, ranking above both Germany and Canada. A comparison of this >>> level of energy consumption with current global consumption of wind and >>> solar energy is sobering. >>> As with all comparisons of energy consumption, methods and calculations >>> should be laid out transparently. Here I will compare the total primary >>> energy consumption of China's steel industry with global primary energy >>> consumption of wind and solar. In 2012 wind and solar electricity >>> production was 614 TWh (trillion watt hours). However to make a more apples >>> to apples comparison we should ask how much coal would be needed to produce >>> this electricity. Using this approach current annual global energy >>> consumption from wind and solar works out as 200 million tonnes of coal >>> equivalent (using EIA's conversion methodology and BP's assumptions for the >>> average thermal efficiency of power plants). Therefore growth in global >>> energy consumption from wind and solar since 2000 has been approximately >>> half of the increase in energy consumption by China's steel sector alone. A >>> stark illustration of how little has been achieved in the transition to low >>> carbon energy. >>> This rapid growth in Chinese steel consumption poses another problem. We >>> are not only fundamentally dependent on steel production, but as Vaclav >>> Smil points out steel production is more or less fundamentally dependent on >>> the large scale use of coal, with no prospect of a transition to low carbon >>> methods of steel production in the short to medium term. Calls to fully >>> dismantle the coal industry must consider how we can make steel without >>> coal, because currently no methods seem particularly feasible. Globally >>> about 1 billion tonnes of coal is used to produce steel, representing 14% >>> of total coal production, with steel and iron production equating to over >>> 6% of global carbon dioxide emissions. This figure is much higher than that >>> of the aviation industry, yet have you ever read an op-ed calling steel >>> manufacturing a rogue industry? >>> The vast disparities in steel consumption in the world today suggest that >>> a significant increase in overall steel consumption is inevitable and >>> probably desirable. We are however reaching the limits of how efficiently >>> steel can be produced, and despite multiple opportunities to improve the >>> rationality of steel use it appears clear that we will need to mine >>> hundreds of millions of tonnes of coal each year to produce steel for >>> decades, and more likely, generations to come. These realities should be >>> borne in mind by those who claim there are no significant barriers to 100% >>> renewable energy." >>> >>> Hi GeoffH, thing with steel making is to remove the oxygen from the Iron >>> Ore, ( basically iron oxide) which is done by the carbon in the charcoal >>> (coal,) but charcoal is not the only way (the Japanese have been using wood >>> charcoal to make steel from 6000BC) nor is coal the best source of >>> charcoal, so this is a fruit-full area of possible development. >>> Interestingly, there was a development called Direct Reduced Iron some 20 >>> odd years ago where electricity was used on an iron/carbon briquette, (my >>> vague remembering) and of course in this time we can talk of electricity >>> from Solar, Wind, Geothermal or tidal/wave to provide at times when any of >>> those have too much, but on another side, my grandfather who was a >>> railwayman in between fishing, when they mixed aluminium powder with rust, >>> to weld the rails together, - the yearning of the aluminium for oxygen >>> (which is normally halted by it's instant oxide coating) would cause it to >>> burn in that reduced environment, created by the railway workers with clay >>> moulds from local mud, so the aluminium would effectively disappear, >>> (evaporate or float to the top) leaving superheated steel which would go >>> down into the clay mould between the two rail ends - so hot it would melt >>> the steel rails on either side to join them, >>> The point being that not only carbon will do that chemical transformation >>> with steel. >>> For changing the steel production away from coal we could consider using >>> gasification, where one has a carbon containing substance, - such as waste >>> from cities, burns it without enough oxygen so creates Carbon Monoxide, >>> very hot, so also gives your reaction that energy, - and of course the >>> carbon monoxide, hungry for more oxygen so that it can become carbon >>> dioxide, takes that oxygen away from the iron oxide, simply put. >>> Whether we blow that carbon dioxide through an 'algal bloom bed' to make >>> more biomass or vent it to the atmosphere may well be a point but my main >>> point is that the coal can stay in the ground, where it was laid down in >>> the Pleistocene, >>> >>> So we have, from gasification, carbon monoxide, produced from waste, to >>> make steel. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Geoff Thomas. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gasification mailing list >>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>> [email protected] >>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org >>> >>> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: >>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ >>> . >> >> -- >> Peter Davies >> Director >> ID Gasifiers Pty Ltd >> Delegate River, Victoria >> Australia >> Ph: 0402 845 295 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Gasification mailing list >> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >> [email protected] >> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org >> >> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: >> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Gasification mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ -- *** Dr. A.D. Karve Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI) _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
