--- Begin Message ---Tom, Thanks for the feedback. I understand the costs of pilot vs. developed plants,but the ratio here seems high. There is a large coal to power gasifier plant being built in Mississippi by DOE and the Southern Companies to demonstrate clean coal operations and it has run into massive cost and time overruns and soured the community on clean coal costs. This may be the same type of influence over future plants where perceived costs are a major deterrent to considering gasification. Some of Kholsa's investments are also out there with the same aura. There are areas which are still immune or at least for some time from the lowered oil and gas prices, but these will eventually matriculate through the energy matrix and affect projects that are based on replacing them. There are projects that can be based on input income, i.e., disposal fees that will survive however. I look at the major oil companies that have the capability of constructing coal to liquid fuels plants at any time and haven't. I am of the opinion that in most cases, with exceptions for the Shell Indonesian GTL operations, they are well aware of the real value of their products, the political structure and vagaries of the pricing and are not willing to take risks of this magnitude. During the Arab Oil Embargo days of the 70's, the US spent $68 billion on synfuels without producing a single commercial plant except for the Plains Gasification facility in North Dakota which still operates today. Congress got tired of pumping money into it (US Synfuels Corporation) and shut off the funding. In New Mexico, there were a series of coal to methane gasification facilities planned with most of the major oil companies having their planned operations and they never came to pass. I can only imagine the amount of investment that would have been lost if they had. Sincerely, Leland T. "Tom" Taylor Thermogenics Inc.-----Original Message----- From: Tom Miles <[email protected]> To: linvent <[email protected]>; gasification <[email protected]>; erin <[email protected]> Sent: Fri, Dec 5, 2014 3:35 am Subject: RE: [Gasification] Karlsruhe Institute of Technology bioliq® pilot project Tom, You can say that any pilot project is pricey. If the intent is proof of concept then the costs won’t represent a commercial production facility. Even the first few plants will require some subsidy to compete with fossil fuels so it really depends on the long term vision of the public funding agencies. We have already seen some investors back out of a couple of biomass projects because of low cost shale gas. They were probably just in it to develop the project and would leave anyway. Tom Miles From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, December 05, 2014 10:35 AM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [Gasification] Karlsruhe Institute of Technology bioliq® pilot project Rather pricey system for 1 ton/day yield. It only proves that with enough money, any process can be made to work technically, but economically? There are much less expensive ways to do this. Wonder if there will be a #2 system. Going to get rough to put these deals together with the dropping crude oil pricing. Sincerely, Leland T. "Tom" Taylor Thermogenics Inc. -----Original Message----- From: Erin Rasmussen <[email protected]> To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification' <[email protected]> Sent: Thu, Dec 4, 2014 12:35 pm Subject: [Gasification] Karlsruhe Institute of Technology bioliq® pilot project This is a nice write-up of the Bioliq biomass to fuel project: http://www.biologynews.net/archives/2014/12/01/bioliq_complete_process_chain_is_running.html more from the Karlsuher Institut für Technologie web page: http://www.kit.edu/kit/15985.php And the bioliq project web site http://www.bioliq.de Erin Rasmussen TR Miles Technical Consultants Inc. http://www.trmiles.com/ and BioEnergy Discussion Lists http://www.bioenergylists.org/ [email protected] _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
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