The data came from a prestigious government research center in Europe. I will pass your comment on to them.
Jim Leach -----Original Message----- From: Greg Manning [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 11:33 AM To: ''Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'' Subject: Re: [Gasification] Dioxin formation I would tend to differ on that.... "laboratory data" on one gasifier does NOT a bunch make, comparing a poorly designed gasifier to a top end boiler.... go figure, what next, there "Really IS" a man in the moon....... Disinformation at it's finest! Greg Manning, Canadian Gasifier Ltd. Building Hi-Performance Gasifiers, Since 2001 Brandon, Manitoba, Canada 1 (204) 726-1851 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]on Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 11:14 AM To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification Subject: Re: [Gasification] Dioxin formation I have seen data from laboratory research on gasifiers and dioxins were formed. In fact, significant amounts were formed. In terms of dioxin formation, the gasifier is likely worse than a good boiler. Jim Leach -----Original Message----- From: Sunil Rawal [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 10:46 PM To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification' Subject: Re: [Gasification] Dioxin formation I would say that in practcal way there is always presence of oxygen except in case of Plasma gasification where temp is very high. If sufficient oxygen is not there then full burning is not possible and till date there is no system available which can mix fuel and oxygen perfactly. Sunil Rawal Achintya Projects & Services, 160 Evershine Mall, Near Mindspace Chincholi Bunder, Malad (west) MUMBAI 400064 INDIA Cell# 0091-9967064472 Telefax;- 0091 (0)22-42660929 On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:42 PM, wrote: > As part of the intermediate step to formaiton of dioxins, it is necessary > to form chlorine dioxide. In the strongly reducing hydrogen rich environment > of the gasifier, the oxygen is removed so that this intermediate is not > formed and dioxins are not formed. In fact, gasifiers are a good method of > reducing dioxins. > Sincerely, > Leland T. "Tom" Taylor > President > Thermogenics Inc. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sunil Rawal > To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification < > [email protected]> > Sent: Fri, Sep 17, 2010 12:10 am > Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 51, Issue 13 > > Dear All, > > Technically to avoid dioxine, we should prevent reaction of halogens ( > Florine, chlorine, Iodine, Bromine) with nox and the temperature most > suitable for it is around 330 to 280 deg cent. So whether you burn material > in incinerator or plasma gasification process or your normal furnace, if > you > can aviod the said temperature zone in flue gas by sudden cooling or > maintaining flue gas above 330 deg cent. to avoid formation of dioxines. > Another method is scrub out these halogens from gas at higher temperature > to > avoid formation of dioxine. > > As formation of dioxene & PCB is based on halogens if raw material is free > of halogen compound, there is no need to take care of temperature zone. > I have worked and studied a lot on these issues and what I said above are > only way to avoid > formation of dioxene. > > Anybody interested in more information may contact me on my email id > [email protected]. > > Sunil Rawal > Achintya Projects & Services, > 160 Evershine Mall, Near Mindspace > Chincholi Bunder, > Malad (west) > MUMBAI 400064 INDIA > Cell# 0091-9967064472 > Telefax;- 0091 (0)22-42660929 > > 2010/9/15 Björn Dahlroth > > A very important source of chlorine in municipal solid waste is simply >> foodstuff that contain ordinary table salt. At high temperature sodium >> chloride will dissociate. The trick to avoid dioxins in the exhaust >> > from > >> modern incineration plants is first to achieve as complete combustion >> > as > >> possible and then quick cooling of the flue gas to decrease >> > recombination > >> plus the use of absorption materials and catalysts. This is common >> technology today. Thermal gasification would probably be another >> > story but > >> the important thing is what you get when you finally burn the gas. >> > Anyways > >> if you work with waste like MSW the plants have to be very big for >> economical reasons and gasification followed by any thermal >> > electricity > >> production will hardly achieve a higher total efficiency then a modern >> incineration plant where you have pressed up steam data to the >> > possible > >> limits with such kind of fuel. It is also an unavoidable fact that >> > with > >> common market price levels for electricity or combined electricity and >> district heating it will be necessary that waste treatment plants >> > charge > >> some kind of gate fee. This is what we have to pay to achieve a very >> > low > >> pollution of the environment. >> Bjorn Dahlroth >> Sweden >> >> -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- >> Från: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] För >> [email protected] >> Skickat: den 14 september 2010 21:00 >> Till: [email protected] >> Ämne: Gasification Digest, Vol 51, Issue 13 >> >> Send Gasification mailing list submissions to >> [email protected] >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> >> >> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org > >> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> [email protected] >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> [email protected] >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Does anyboday know GEM3T120, waste gasification (Max Kennedy) >> 2. Re: Does anyboday know GEM3T120, waste gasification >> ([email protected]) >> 3. Re: Does anyboday know GEM3T120, waste gasification (Arnt >> > Karlsen) > >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 16:56:48 -0700 (PDT) >> From: Max Kennedy >> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification >> >> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Does anyboday know GEM3T120, waste >> gasification >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Dioxins are formed from chlorinated and organic compounds not nitrogen >> containing compounds. Vinyls are especially bad. >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Arnt Karlsen >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Mon, September 13, 2010 1:36:20 PM >> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Does anyboday know GEM3T120, waste >> > gasification > >> >> ... >> >> ..they and dioxins etc are produced when you burn fuels >> containing organic nitrogen compounds. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 22:38:04 EDT >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected], [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Does anyboday know GEM3T120, waste >> gasification >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >> >> from Lewis L. Smith >> >> As I recall from my "boiler" days, the production of dioxins can be >> > avoided > >> in combustion processes by ? >> >> [1] Removing chlorinated materials from the feedstock. >> >> [2] Controlling temperatures, especially those of combustion and >> > stack > >> gasses. >> >> [3] All of the above. >> >> ### >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 13:48:00 +0200 >> From: Arnt Karlsen >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Does anyboday know GEM3T120, waste >> gasification >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >> >> On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 16:56:48 -0700 (PDT), Max wrote in message >> <[email protected]>: >> >> > Dioxins are formed from chlorinated and organic compounds not >> > nitrogen containing compounds. Vinyls are especially bad. >> >> ..correct (some of these contain nitrogen ;o)), they are >> broken down in a gasifier in about the same way, though. >> >> ..some (Danish?) R&D people played with FeCl type acids >> in char beds to break down freon type gases, I read this >> years back doing "my homework" on my own gasifier. >> >> -- >> ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) >> ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... >> Scenarios always come in sets of three: >> best case, worst case, and just in case. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Gasification mailing list >> [email protected] >> >> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org > >> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org >> >> UNSUBSCRIBE HERE; >> >> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org > >> >> >> End of Gasification Digest, Vol 51, Issue 13 >> ******************************************** >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Gasification mailing list >> [email protected] >> >> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org > >> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org >> http://info.bioenergylists.org >> >> UNSUBSCRIBE HERE; >> >> http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org > >> >> > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Gasification mailing list > [email protected] > http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org > http://info.bioenergylists.org > > UNSUBSCRIBE HERE; > http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Gasification mailing list > [email protected] > http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org > http://info.bioenergylists.org > > UNSUBSCRIBE HERE; > http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org > -- _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing list [email protected] http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org http://info.bioenergylists.org UNSUBSCRIBE HERE; http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing list [email protected] http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org http://info.bioenergylists.org UNSUBSCRIBE HERE; http://listserv.repp.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_listserv.repp.org No virus found in this incoming message. 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