Some on the Auburn list serve are worried about it. I doubt he would leave so easily, but if we offered him 3-4 million, I am not sure he would turn it away.
Jerry From: Scott Lucas <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Reply-To: GatorTalk <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Date: Sunday, November 17, 2013 at 7:15 PM To: GatorTalk <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: [gatortalk] Weighing in He won't be pried away from Auburn so easily... especially after such a successful year. He has a great opportunity to build something essentially from scratch. They had 3 wins last year and that job is no slouch either. He wouldn't leave AU for UF, and I seriously doubt he would to go t oUSC unless he is a USC guy-- and he's not. ________________________________ From: Jerry D. Belloit <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> To: "[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [gatortalk] Weighing in Kevin, It is great to have you back posting! You make some great points. I would take one exception. There are some good coaches out there. Right now, I think the best young coach out there is Gus Malzahn. It would take some money, but I think we could buy him. If I was USCw, I would be going after him. Jerry From: Kevin Dickey <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Reply-To: GatorTalk <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Date: Sunday, November 17, 2013 at 5:03 AM To: GatorTalk <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: [gatortalk] Weighing in To Rob and others - I think asking him to hire an OC who wants to throw it all the time is asking too much. Asking him to hire someone who is committed to overall offensive competence, balance (which means a good passing game and a good running game), and with enough fresh ideas or charisma to attract better offensive talent - that's not asking too much. No doubt it is what Muschamp would say he wants. Saban doesn't exactly use the Run and Shoot but when they go to the air, they make plays and get first downs and TDs. Even a defensive-minded coach needs this. I can accept being a defensive-minded team and being less pass-oriented than SOS was. But a one-dimensional offense is the kiss of death whether you run or pass too much. To go back to that 1991 Syracuse game, we basically never ran the ball again after the middle of the 1st quarter after going down 14-0. It was a mistake Spurrier rarely made later on, as he learned to use Rhett, Taylor, Graham, etc. as very effective counter-punches to his passing game. I am sure Muschamp understands this. He's been suffering through these games too. As Stephen said, it's all about what he does about it, and he's going to have to do it fast. Three years is the new six years. I am sure that by 2035 or so, unsuccessful coaches will be fired during the halftime of the second game if it isn't going well. On Saturday, November 16, 2013 5:41:50 PM UTC+1, Rob Alexander wrote: And that is the crux of the matter. It's not about whether Muschamp can do better by the offense. He has all the skills he needs. The question is whether he will choose to do better. What he needs to do does go against his basic philosophy, but I firmly believe it is all going to come down to that. If he does not readjust his philosophy to accept that the goal of an offense is to score points -- as opposed to holding the ball as long as possible -- he will not be successful. If he can embrace that change, then he could be our coach for decades. But no one here can possibly know today whether or not he will do that, so I am content to let Foley do his job and make an educated guess on our behalf. Rob Sent from my iPad On Nov 16, 2013, at 10:49 AM, Jay Cicone <[email protected]> wrote: If he wants to survive, he needs to know his limitations and delagate responsibility to someone who know offense. ________________________________ From:[email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of C.Simpson [[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 10:47 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [gatortalk] Weighing in Jay I think you are asking Muschamp to totally alter his football philosophy which entails going against how he thinks the game should be played. That's asking a lot. Charlie On 11/16/2013 10:40 AM, Jay Cicone wrote: Kevin, Your best point and something I have been echoing is the Stoops hire. I know Bobby and he told me how he got hired by Spurrier---the offensive genius. He told Spurrier that his D forced 3 and outs 70%? of the time. Spurrier was drooling about getting the ball back on offense that often. Muschamp needs to hire a real O coordinater and let him run the offense with no interference. Then, my friend, I believe we will have something great with Muschamp at the helm! ________________________________ From:[email protected] [[email protected]] on behalf of Kevin Dickey [[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 9:39 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [gatortalk] Weighing in Hi everyone, It’s been literally years since I posted so first just a hello to everyone. I have mostly been reading here all along, with a one year gap last year when I left my company and changed my email. Lately I’ve been reading digests, those of you that tolerated THFGT back in its heyday know I posted there sometimes. Haven’t been as much of an internet poster due to life changes (three kids did change the time equation, a bit). But I have continued to enjoy your conversation over the years – thanks for that. It’s time to weigh in. I remember, sadly, the bitter argument on this list over Zook and now here we are again, with a program seemingly at the precipice and people screaming for the coach’s head. But as someone who knew, deep down, that Zook was a disaster from the moment he arrived (Grossman was switching to Fun & Gun plays in the huddle by middle of the first season – Zook just couldn’t fill those boots and who could have), I just want to contrast the two situations a little. Despite the injuries, there is a legitimate case against Muschamp. He arrived as a defensive coordinator, and the offense at UF has been simply awful since he arrived. The entire scheme has been to make no mistakes, hold the ball, and play defense. In fact, I think you could draw a parallel between Muschamp’s approach to offense and SOS’s situation with the defense circa 1992-1995. Clearly one side of the ball was there to serve the other. And even more damning (and breaking, somewhat, with the SOS comparison), the recruiting appears to have gone the same way. We have a defense stocked with future NFL players, and an offense (particularly an offensive line) that would have problems in the Big East (and now problems with the kicking game, as well). And frankly our offense didn’t change at all when we changed OC’s. The biggest concern, for me, about CWM is that he came in as a great defensive coordinator, but so far, that’s all he seems to be, now that he’s a head coach. That is a problem. So now let me give you the other side – which is, IMO, far, far stronger. And let’s just, for the sake of argument, accept that the argument against CWM is 100% true, that he’s a defensive genius who still has a lot to learn about offense. And, let’s continue the SOS comparison. Let’s ask the question: Are Muschamp’s first three years more like SOS’s, or more like Zook’s? The premise being, CWM is to defense what SOS was to offense. In terms of overall program happiness and W-L record, obviously, he’s more like Zook. But since we’re trying to decide whether we want him back NEXT year, the W-L record is what it is, but it’s in the past, and irrelevant to the decision, unless we feel that the W-L record is so bad that it demands his firing on moral grounds. Which it isn’t. He won 11 games last year, and this year was hopeless given the injuries and the brutal schedule. When the press is listing all of our injuries, always remember the one they forget to mention: Andre DuBose. He was set to have his breakout season. What would a deep threat have done for us against Miami or Missouri? He never played a down. Everything we remember about SOS is through rose-tinted glasses. There are some fundamental advantages that he had that skews the comparison with Zook. First, when SOS’s great offensive system worked, you beat the lower SEC teams like Kentucky 55-7. When CWM’s system works, you win that game 17-3. Second, SOS had great timing, in that his system arrived in an era that was ripe for change. For a few magical seasons, he was able to overwhelm people with shock and awe. It was a revolution in the SEC and he got a bunch of early wins against good teams because of it, that he couldn’t get in 1995-2011 and doesn’t get at South Carolina. Third, SOS had much better luck. Luck, I say? You’re damn right. Compare each coach’s difficult third season. In 1992 UF lost to Tennessee and Miss. St. early on and were 1-2. The Gators skated on thin ice all year, beating LSU 28-21, Louisville 31-17, Southern Miss. 24-20, South Carolina 14-9 (all at home), and in the luckiest win of the SOS era, beat a far superior Georgia team 26-24 that featured UGa drive killing penalties, horrific play-calling by Ray Goff, and a total collapse by Garrison Hearst. Then, we got to the SEC championship game because Tennessee – who had beaten us 31-14 – lost their last two conference games against USC and Arkansas, both with losing records. That alone doesn’t mean the team was LUCKY, mind you, but I ask you this question: Given those results, what would the season have looked like if Florida had lost Shane Matthews, Errict Rhett, Jack Jackson, Jason Odom, Reggie Green, Kevin Carter, Ben Hanks, and Carlton Miles to injury? Because those are the players who played the positions of the players that Muschamp lost in 1992. I actually think that 1992 and 2013 are a lot alike. I also think last year and 1991 were a lot alike. 1991 saw us do everything, but fall short due to one mistake-filled game that we still could have won. We almost won the UGa game last year even though we’d had four fumbles – the fifth one at the goal line killed us. When Muschamp had a healthy team, his system did work, and it didn’t require the offense to make NO mistakes (five was just too many – just as giving up all of the long TDs was too much that afternoon in Syracuse). Each season was the early test case for the system, each resulted in a one-loss season and a bowl blowout. The truth is that good offensive teams are prettier to watch…at least in wins. But the losses sure are a whole lot uglier. SOS’s early losses – UT and F$U in 1990, Syracuse in 1991, Miss St and UT in 1992 – were all really, really, ugly featuring QB changes, interceptions, and horrific defensive play. We tended to win big or get blown out. Even in 1993-94, when we were closer, the losses to Auburn and a certain tie in Tallahassee had an air of absurdity about them, as our defense disappeared completely in crucial fourth quarters despite being loaded with talent. We were scoring too quickly and blitzing to try to get the ball back, and we were exhausted in the fourth quarter. Why? Because the defense was there to serve the offense – our coach was a great offensive coordinator. And let’s not forget the Fiesta Bowl against Nebraska – the doubting was so bad the SOS took an NFL job and then changed his mind just before the press conference. I remember the talk show callers in the early 90’s, before it was at all certain we would ever win the NC. SOS will never win unless he does something about the defense, they said. He needs a defensive coordinator and he needs to get out of the way. He’s a great offensive coordinator but not a great head coach. Then SOS hired Bob Stoops and the rest is history. Spurrier coached FOUR full seasons before he found the right approach to defense. Yes, he won 2 (really 3) SEC titles in those years, but again, it was a very different SEC. LSU and Georgia were not at their best. Auburn had some good teams but then imploded over Terry Bowden’s exit. Alabama won the NC in 1992 but never came close again in the 90’s. South Carolina was barely on the radar. The only other really solid team in the SEC throughout the 90’s was Tennessee. Compare that to now, when four different schools have won NCs in the last decade and teams like USC, Missouri, TAMU, Arkansas, and others represent a real threat – you know, when you aren’t playing LSU, Alabama, Georgia, and Auburn. UF has got some problems on the offensive side of the ball, both in recruiting and in coaching. We have recruited some decent young playmakers and redshirted some people. CWM is going to have to do something to shore up the offense and I think that we are going to have to go out and spend some big money to get an up and coming OC who will get us playing better and also attract some of the many great offensive players that the state produces. But the situation is more akin to Spurrier’s early struggles than the train wreck that was Ron Zook. You put SOS in today’s SEC and give him the injuries that have been dealt to Muschamp, and 2013 looks a lot like 1992, maybe worse. On the other hand, there is not the lunacy about older boosters not sitting down at practice, the inability to communicate, the weird decisions that we saw with Zook. I don’t see a train wreck; I see a good football coach, in a tough situation, who also needs to get the offense fixed, and quick. And for those who want to get rid of Muschamp, I also point out that there is no Urban Meyer waiting in the wings for us this time. More than anything, our program needs CWM to succeed. He needs our support. Just remember, the world of college football has changed a lot since I first posted to this list in 2000. The other teams are a lot better. UCF is a win away from a BCS bowl – just think about that. We’ve still got a program that’s the envy of college football. We’ve been dealt a tough hand this year, but if we can all stick together – and hopefully get a new OC – I think brighter times are ahead of us. We were #3 just a year ago…keep the faith in our Gators. Go Gators! All the best to everyone. Kevin -- -- GATORS: ONE VOICE ON SATURDAY - NO VOICE ON SUNDAY! 1996 National Football Champions | 2006 National Basketball Champions 2006 National Football Champions | 2007 National Basketball Champions 2008 National Football Champions | Three Heisman Trophy winners: Steve Spurrier (1966), Danny Wuerffel (1996), Tim Tebow (2007) - Visit our website at www.gatornet.us<http://www.gatornet.us/> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "GatorTalk" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to gatortalk+...@ googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/ groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>. -- -- GATORS: ONE VOICE ON SATURDAY - NO VOICE ON SUNDAY! 1996 National Football Champions | 2006 National Basketball Champions 2006 National Football Champions | 2007 National Basketball Champions 2008 National Football Champions | Three Heisman Trophy winners: Steve Spurrier (1966), Danny Wuerffel (1996), Tim Tebow (2007) - Visit our website at www.gatornet.us<http://www.gatornet.us/> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "GatorTalk" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to gatortalk+...@ googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/ groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>. -- -- GATORS: ONE VOICE ON SATURDAY - NO VOICE ON SUNDAY! 1996 National Football Champions | 2006 National Basketball Champions 2006 National Football Champions | 2007 National Basketball Champions 2008 National Football Champions | Three Heisman Trophy winners: Steve Spurrier (1966), Danny Wuerffel (1996), Tim Tebow (2007) - Visit our website at www.gatornet.us<http://www.gatornet.us/> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "GatorTalk" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to gatortalk+...@ googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/ groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>. -- -- GATORS: ONE VOICE ON SATURDAY - NO VOICE ON SUNDAY! 1996 National Football Champions | 2006 National Basketball Champions 2006 National Football Champions | 2007 National Basketball Champions 2008 National Football Champions | Three Heisman Trophy winners: Steve Spurrier (1966), Danny Wuerffel (1996), Tim Tebow (2007) - Visit our website at www.gatornet.us<http://www.gatornet.us/> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "GatorTalk" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to gatortalk+...@ googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/ groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>. -- -- GATORS: ONE VOICE ON SATURDAY - NO VOICE ON SUNDAY! 1996 National Football Champions | 2006 National Basketball Champions 2006 National Football Champions | 2007 National Basketball Champions 2008 National Football Champions | Three Heisman Trophy winners: Steve Spurrier (1966), Danny Wuerffel (1996), Tim Tebow (2007) - Visit our website at www.gatornet.us --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "GatorTalk" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- -- GATORS: ONE VOICE ON SATURDAY - NO VOICE ON SUNDAY! 1996 National Football Champions | 2006 National Basketball Champions 2006 National Football Champions | 2007 National Basketball Champions 2008 National Football Champions | Three Heisman Trophy winners: Steve Spurrier (1966), Danny Wuerffel (1996), Tim Tebow (2007) - Visit our website at www.gatornet.us --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "GatorTalk" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- -- GATORS: ONE VOICE ON SATURDAY - NO VOICE ON SUNDAY! 1996 National Football Champions | 2006 National Basketball Champions 2006 National Football Champions | 2007 National Basketball Champions 2008 National Football Champions | Three Heisman Trophy winners: Steve Spurrier (1966), Danny Wuerffel (1996), Tim Tebow (2007) - Visit our website at www.gatornet.us --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "GatorTalk" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- -- GATORS: ONE VOICE ON SATURDAY - NO VOICE ON SUNDAY! 1996 National Football Champions | 2006 National Basketball Champions 2006 National Football Champions | 2007 National Basketball Champions 2008 National Football Champions | Three Heisman Trophy winners: Steve Spurrier (1966), Danny Wuerffel (1996), Tim Tebow (2007) - Visit our website at www.gatornet.us --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "GatorTalk" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
