Understand your concern, but personally I think it is unfounded. I dont base that on any particular fact but just from my own observation and reading through the years.
First hormone was never a concern in Sweden, as you are not allowed to use growth hormone in animal feeds for animals that are for human consumption. Though if Sweden used hormones, I probably would have been concerned about it.
Though I am biologist, I know very little about nutrition, so I should probably not say too much, just took one term on animal nutrition (did my degree at an agricultural university in Sweden).
But from what I have read and understood is that gut loading only short term, i.e it is only what the crickets have just eaten in the last couple of days. So if you are concerned about gut loading, just separate the ones you wanted to feed to your animals a few days before and feed them what you want to gut load them with. And take advantage of the extra growth from using a professional feed.
Secondly, from what I understand about nutrition and minerals and vitamins, though you can overdose some of the fat soluble vitamins, you wouldnt be able to grow generation after generation of crickets we way we did without any side effect if it really was an overdose.
Hence I dont think it feed is a problem. Also the crickets are growing and breeding like there was no tomorrow on this feed which to me indicates a good nutritional value.
Also in terms of the calcium - phosphorus ratio, Turkey start has a very good ratio.
Before I slip of this soap box ;-) i just wanted to add, I really dont know much about nutrition, but from what we learned about cows/pigs nutrition, the animal body is mastermind in getting the right balance in the body as long it gets feed the nutrients. So to extrapolate that to crickets, it wouldn�t surprise me if matters much more what insects you feed your geckos than what you actually feed those insect (as long as they cen their essential vitamins and minerals).
So breeding lots of different insect on the same diet, will still give your geckos the variety they need, rather than trying to satisfy your geckos need with just one type of insect.
If someone disagrees with me , they are probably correct, as this just my little rant.
All the best
Jon
Ps. The company that I buy the feed from all so do mix to order, so cyou can just walk up and say I want 20 kg of this mix. So if you really want a different mix, just ask. A lot heaper than buying some super expensive stuff from some petshop. I believe this is true for most agricultural feed companies
--------------------------- Jon Isaksson Manchester UK
From: Doug Johnston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [gecko]Geckos and crickets Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 09:29:19 -0800
Jon...
I don't doubt what you say as far as making the crickets thrive and grow, but is all the protein and excessive amounts of vitamins, minerals and maybe even hormones put there for turkeys really what you want your geckos to get second hand? When I first started keeping geckos and chameleons years ago I also used Layena chicken mash. My animals had more of what I now know are problems related to over supplementation and calcium imbalance. Poultry food does not have the correct balance of calcium and phosphorus, and way too much of the other stuff. I prefer to feed my crickets fresh veggies, fruit and either the commercial diet designed by Dr. Susan Donoghue or a similar recipe I posted last week.
I backed off too much on supplementation a couple years ago (a good thing for the chameleons, but not good for the geckos), and ended up with exactly the opposite problem (no egg laying). Since correcting that, I am getting lots of eggs again. BTW... when I was using Layena, my breeding program was successful in that I got lots of babies, but my breeders just didn't seem to last more than a couple years. I now have some adult breeder geckos that are 5+ years old and still going strong.
Jon Isaksson wrote:
Hi,
Some 8 years ago, my and a couple of friends got together and started to breed crickets commercially.
So during those 3 years when we did this we tried loads of different feeds, with different success.
The best feed, without a doubt (in terms of growth and price), was the Turkey start (dont know the English name) but basically what you feed young Turkey chicks.
We saw a noticable difference in growth rate with this feed.
I moved to England from Sweden a few years back, so dont do any commercial cricket breeding anymore though my friends have continued but I still use it for my own little breeding colony of crickets.
Cheers Jon
--------------------------- Jon Isaksson Manchester UK
Gexers,
I used to use Layena (chick starter) for the crickets until I was told that is too high in something (can't remember what). Basically, crickets may not have the same nutritional requirements as rabbits and hampsters. I would purchase some good cricket food like Dr. Susan Donoghue's or Alan Repashy's and see how close these food items come to it. Basically crickets will eat just about anything, however, whether or not that is really suitable for them nutritionally is the question you need to answer.
Julie B.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
as an odd thought. I have a ton of hampster litter. would that work? right now I just have some paper towels that I change every other day. Icky work.
Liz
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