Re: Re: [gecko]Intro (again?) and an appeal for tips on klemmeri

[Chad Mayer]

Good thoughts, especially on the supplementation.  I vary my supplementation routine, mostly based on my exeperience with frogs and chams, but Ill change that for the klemmeri.  I want to take NO CHANCES with these guys.  Ive really fallen for them.....

Lighting.  Read the Christensons book.  LOVED IT.  Best book Ive read on keepiog any species of exotics.  Heres what Ive done:  the basic message seemed to be bright white light.  For my exotic plants, thats a necessity (Ive got broms and moss in with the klemmeri.  They need huge amounts of light.  So do my orchids).  For my laticauda, I followed their (gregg and leanns) instructions to a "T".  For the klemmeri, because I wanted to provide lots of verticality (with the consequent light issues) and moderate heat problems  (needed too many fluorescents to get light down to the bottom), I used compact fluorescents, about 5000K (daylight).  These are from Home Depot, security lights, made by lights of america.  I just found that I couldnt get enough light down low with regular fluorescents, and my plants in my frog vivs did SO much better with CF.  So, I dont think that the amount or color is a problem.&n bsp; Ill up my supplementation routine.  Also, I occasionally (about 1X per week) rotate in a reptisun 5.0, just to make sure.  Finally, the halogens seemed to make a real difference.  Much more activity and color.  Probably just the heat, but Ive got a sneaking suspicion that the color of the light played a part too.  Just a hunch, Im probably totally off base.

Gosh, this is so hard to describe without pics. I promise to get some this weekend, as Im really pretty proud of the viv. 

Water:  yeah, Ive never seen them drink from it either.  Bacteria might be a problem, but Ive got excellent aeration going, and some natural filtration going with the plants.  Also, good air exchange courtesy of a 1 inch gap on the sides (started out as for the orchids, but made the tank much "sweeter" also.  Provides good air transfer).  Finally, I let the tank "cure" for over a month before anything was introduced.  And, it gets cleaned of feces regularly.  RO water only.  So, though Im hearing your concern, I think (hope?) things are getting enough good air transfer and filtration that bacteria arent going to be a huge concern.  Ill keep you posted though.

Temp drop at night to mid 60's, thats as low as I can get with my other animals, and of course me in the apartment too!

Yup, juvies.  Did I mention how much I love these little guys? :)

Im keeping that email Doug, thanks a ton for the tips.  Anything else you think of would be GREATLY appreciated.

Chad

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Today's Topics:

1. Buying shipping supplies in Canada ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
2. Re: Intro (again?) and an appeal for tips on p. klemmeri (Doug Johnston)
3. Re: Buying shipping supplies in Canada (Julie Bergman)
4. Re: Unwanted gasses released by heat packs directly touching
styrofoam popcorn??? (Julie Bergman)
5. Re: Buying shipping supplies in Canada (Neil A. Meister)6. Re: Unwanted gasses released by heat packs directly touching styrofoam popcorn??? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
7. Re: Unwanted gasses released by heat packs directly touching
styrofoam popcorn??? (Julie Bergman)

--__--__--

Message: 1
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:15:32 -0500
Subject: [gecko]Buying shipping supplies in Canada
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I've been searching for a vendor of shipping materials (particularly deli cups) in Canada, preferably online, but I've had no luck. I've tried a few restaurant supply places but it isn't going well. I don't think I know where to look. Can someone give me some direction? LLL Reptile is the only place I've seen but I know this can't the only one, especially for Canadians.

Thanks,
Mike

1


--__--__--

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:36:10 -0800
From: Doug Johnston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [gecko]Intro (again?) and an appeal for tips on p. klemmeri
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Hi Chad...

Welcome to the wonderful world of klemmeri!!!

I'm assuming, based on the size of food items you are providing, that
the gex are juvies? Keep in mind that these guys (as with most Phelsuma)
will eat anything the size of their head! Don't be afraid to move them
up to larger prey once they're showing growth. Keep up the varied food,
too! If you're successful with lauticauda, keep the klemmeri the same
and you'll do fine there. What you're doing sounds great. Make sure they
have some tubes (I use bamboo) leaned up into the corners so it's pretty
much vertical. They will hide in it and probably lay t heir eggs there
too when they're ready to breed. If you can rig a horizontal tube across
the tank within a few inches of the top, they will spend a lot of time
on that. My tanks have several inches of potting soil/peat with plants
directly in it. I use sensevaria, pothos, corn plants... anything
vertical really. I then spread a layer of medium or fine orchid bark on
the soil.

Not sure where you can get the T-Rex locally, but I got mine from Julie.

The only thing about your setup that bothers me is the running water. It
is great for RH, but they will likely not drink from it and it's a
source of bacteria if not kept scrupulously clean. I tried them for a
while and gave up. I mist twice a day, applying enough water to
thoroughly wet all the plants and tank surfaces. My goal is to supply
enough water to keep the soil and plants properly watered. If I do that,
the RH is fine and the plants stay healthy.

If you've go tten advice from Leann about the 12 vdc halogen spots for
basking spots, you've probably also heard about the need for bright,
white light? She and Greg have always recommended the Philips TL series
fluorescents, and use no additional UVB. While I can't argue with their
success, I still add a Reptisun 5.0, at least for me! When possible, I
use a two tube fixture with one Reptisun and one Philips. When I can
only get a single tube on the tank, I use a Reptisun. I think that's the
only area we don't agree absolutely. I'm sure they think I'm going
overboard, but my results have always been great, too.

Let me alter that last statement slightly... a couple years ago I had
reduced my supplementation on my geckos along with my chameleons. While
that was great for the chams, it was a disaster for the Phelsuma. My
animals were getting lethargic and not breeding, and I lost several of
my female breeders prematurely. After thinking it t hrough and chatting
with Julie and Leann, I went back to my old supplementation regimen...
dust food with RepCal/D3 and Herptivite (2:1) at every feeding. I got
breeding activity a few months after I'd made the change, and the gex
are much more active! I'm now rebuilding some of my breeding groups that
I lost animals from. I only feed my Phelsuma twice a week, and only
about once a week in the winter. Babies get food more often, of course.
Never feed lots of insects... that can stress them and put them off
food. In winter, their photo period is decreased because the lights are
driven by a Helix system with a sensor in the window. Also, the ambient
temps in my house are lower (I allow my house to drop to 55F at night
and during the day when I'm not there). They have their basking lights
during the day, of course, but I supply no heat at night. This results
in them eating less and breeding activity stops, giving the girls a
need ed rest for several months.

Oh well... I've rambled on long enough!!! Have fun with them. I'm sure
they'll do great!

Chad Mayer wrote:

> Hi all!
>
> Well, Im not sure if I already did this, but Im awake at
> my computer late tonight, and am really enjoying the
> conversations, so Ill jump right in!
>
> My name is Chad Mayer, I currently live in Tempe, AZ. I
> keep a number of dart frogs, laticauda, leos and
> chameleons, but Ive recently been able to acquire some
> beautiful p. klemmeri! Im VERY excited by them, and
> literally sit for hours watching their antics (theyre
> about them most goofy animals Ive ever owned! So
> active!). I work hard to make sure that my enclosures are
> naturalistic and appropriate for the animals I keep. Ill
> post pics of the klemmeri tank soon, but wanted to ask
> anyone and everyone who keeps these guys for any husbandry
> tips they might have. Currently, they consume fruit flies
> (Herptivite and Rep Cal dusted every other time), lesser
> wax worms (which they love), termites (when I can get
> them), pinheads, confused flour beetle larvae
> occasionally and baby food/honey/spirulina/bee pollen mix
> 1X every week. Sound balanced? Im gonna try to get some
> of the T-rex day gecko powder based on everyones comment
> s. Recommended sources? Any other tips? Doug, I know
> you keep these guys too (in fact, the people I got mine
> from said that one of mine came from your bloodline. Any
> thoughts appreciated) Ive got 3 other bloodlines for a
> total of four animals in what is about a 30 gal
> enclosure. Actually, its a converted Oceanic Chameleon
> enclosure with side openings if anyones familiar. Anyway,
> Im looking for tips on keeping these guys happy as
> possible, and any breeding pointers would be much
> appreciated. Theyre misted twice daily, humidity in the
> enclosure runs from > 90% near the bottom to about 50-60
> near the top, 95 degree basking spot, compact fluorescent
> lighting and supplemental halogen spots (thanks for the
> tip on that Leann!), and have a slowly running water
> feature in the tank for aesthetics/humidity/drink source
> when they might feel like it. Whew, lots of stuff, I
> know, but wanted to get that all in there!
>
> So, thats my intro. Im doing well with the laticauda
> (persistent breeding to the point where Ive separated the
> male and female to give her a break) and leos (cooling
> period now).
>
> Oh yeah. Was looking at the classifieds and dont see many
> recent postings. Are people not breeding much right now,
> or are they finding different outlets? Anyone with a good
> price on guimbeaui or cepediana please drop me a line!
> Ive got one more tank available that could house a pair of
> either.....
>
> Well, thats it for now, but thanks in advance for any info
> you can provide to keep my little klemmeri happy!
>
> Chad
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
>


--
Doug Johnston
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/scubadug


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Hi Chad...



Welcome to the wonderful world of klemmeri!!!



I'm assuming, based on the size of food items you are providing, that
the gex are juvies? Keep in mind that these guys (as with most
Phelsuma) will eat anything the size of their head! Don't be afraid to
move th em up to larger prey once they're showing growth. Keep up the
varied food, too! If you're successful with lauticauda, keep the
klemmeri the same and you'll do fine there. What you're doing sounds
great. Make sure they have some tubes (I use bamboo) leaned up into the
corners so it's pretty much vertical. They will hide in it and probably
lay their eggs there too when they're ready to breed. If you can rig a
horizontal tube across the tank within a few inches of the top, they
will spend a lot of time on that. My tanks have several inches of
potting soil/peat with plants directly in it. I use sensevaria, pothos,
corn plants... anything vertical really. I then spread a layer of
medium or fine orchid bark on the soil.



Not sure where you can get the T-Rex locally, but I got mine from Julie.



The only thing about your setup that bothers me is the running water.
It is great for RH, but they will likely not drink from it and it's a
source of bacteria if not kept scrupulously clean. I tried them for a
while and gave up. I mist twice a day, applying enough water to
thoroughly wet all the plants and tank surfaces. My goal is to supply
enough water to keep the soil and plants properly watered. If I do
that, the RH is fine and the plants stay healthy.



If you've gotten advice from Leann about the 12 vdc halogen spots for
basking spots, you've probably also heard about the need for bright,
white light? She and Greg have always recommended the Philips TL series
fluorescents, and use no additional UVB. While I can't argue with their
success, I still add a Reptisun 5.0, at least for me! When possible, I
use a two tube fixture with one Reptisun and one Philips. When I can
only get a single tube on the tank, I use a Reptisun. I think that's
the only area we don't agree absolutely. I'm sure they think I'm going
overboard, but my results have always been great, too.



Let me alter that last statement slightly... a couple years ago I had
reduced my supplementation on my geckos along with my chameleons. While
that was great for the chams, it was a disaster for the Phelsuma. My
animals were getting lethargic and not breeding, and I lost several of
my female breeders prematurely. After thinking it through and chatting
with Julie and Leann, I went back to my old supplementation regimen...
dust food with RepCal/D3 and Herptivite (2:1) at every feeding. I got
breeding activity a few months after I'd made the change, and the gex
are much more active! I'm now rebuilding some of my breeding groups
that I lost animals from. I only feed my Phelsuma twice a week, and
only about once a week in the winter. Babies get food more often, of
course. Never feed lots of insects... that can stress them and put them
off food. In winter, their photo period is decreased because the lights
are driven by a H elix system with a sensor in the window. Also, the
ambient temps in my house are lower (I allow my house to drop to 55F at
night and during the day when I'm not there). They have their basking
lights during the day, of course, but I supply no heat at night. This
results in them eating less and breeding activity stops, giving the
girls a needed rest for several months.



Oh well... I've rambled on long enough!!! Have fun with them. I'm sure
they'll do great!



Chad Mayer wrote:

cite="">

style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;">

Hi all!

Well, Im not sure if I already did this, but Im awake at my
computer late tonight, and am really enjoying the conversations, so Ill
jump right in!

My name is Chad Mayer, I currently live in Tempe, AZ.  I
keep a number of dart frogs, laticauda, leos and chameleons, but Ive
recently been able to acquire some beautiful p. klemmeri!  Im VERY
excited by them, and literally sit for hours watching their antics
(theyre about them most goofy animals Ive ever owned!  So active!).  I
work hard to make sure that my enclosures are naturalistic and
appropriate for the animals I keep.  Ill post pics of the klemmeri tank
soon, but wanted to ask anyone and everyone who keeps these guys for
any husbandry tips they might have. Currently, they consume fruit flies
(Herptivite and Rep Cal dusted every other time), lesser wax worms
 (which they love), termites (when I can get them), pinheads, confused
flour beetle larvae occasionally and baby food/honey/spirulina/bee
pollen mix 1X every week.  Sound balanced?  Im gonna try to get some of
the T-rex day gecko powder based on everyones comment s.  Recommended
sources?  Any other tips?  Doug, I know you keep these guys too (in
fact, the people I got mine from said that one of mine came from your
bloodline. Any thoughts appreciated) Ive got 3 other bloodlines for a
total of four animals in what is about a 30 gal enclosure.  Actually,
its a converted Oceanic Chameleon enclosure with side openings if
anyones familiar.  Anyway, Im looking for tips on keeping these guys
happy as possible, and any breeding pointers would be much
appreciated.  Theyre misted twice daily, humidity in the enclosure runs
from > 90% near the bottom to about 50-60 near the top, 95 degree
basking spot, compact fluorescent lighting and supplemental halogen
spots (thanks for the tip on that Leann!), and have a slowly running
water feature in the tank for aesthetics/humidity/drink source when
they might feel like it.  Whew, lots of stuff, I know, but wanted to
get that all in there!

So, thats my intro.  Im doing well with the laticauda
(persistent breeding to the point where Ive separated the male and
female to give her a break) and leos (cooling period now). 

Oh yeah.  Was looking at the classifieds and dont see many
recent postings.  Are people not breeding much right now, or are they
finding different outlets?  Anyone with a good price on guimbeaui or
cepediana please drop me a line!  Ive got one more tank available that
could house a pair of either.....

Well, thats it for now, but thanks in advance for any info
you can provide to keep my little klemmeri happy!

Chad

---

Do you Yahoo!?

Protect your
identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard

-- 
Doug Johnston
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/scubadug

--------------080705070804040406010304--


--__--__--

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:40:57 -0800
From: Julie Bergman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Organization: Gecko Ranch
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [gecko]Buying shipping supplies in Canada
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>I've been searching for a vendor of shipping materials (particularly deli cups) in Canada, preferably online, but I've had no luck. I've tried a few restaurant supply places but it isn't going well. I don't think I know where to look. Can someone give me some direction? LLL Reptile is the only place I've seen but I know this can't the only one, especially for Canadians.
>
>

LLL is in California, at least the last time I checked! ;)

Julie Bergman
http://www.geckoranch.com
GGA lifetime member



--__--__--

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:47:07 -0800
From: Julie Bergman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Organization: Gecko Ranch
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [gecko]Unwanted gasses released by heat packs directly touching
styrofoam popcorn???
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Hi Folks---
>
> What do you think here? Until I received this email today I've never
> thought having the heat pack in direct contact with my styrofoam
> popcorn packing was contraindicated. Is it wise to place a heat pack
> inside a small paper bag for that reason?
>
>
>> I don't like to have heat in conctact with the styro popcorn on the off
>> chance that it will release some unwanted gasses. That's why I use
>> newspaper.
>
>
If stryofoam released enough gas from heat packs to kill geckos I have
not seen it in 10 years of shipping. I think you are safe doing this.
Newspaper is a poor conductor of heat too, styrofoam is a more suitable
winter packing material as it absorbs and retains heat better than
newspaper. I use newspaper when conditions are hot. There are different
kinds of styrofoam, I prefer the "soft" kind that absorbs shock better
than the hard kind. IMHO.

Julie B.

>
>
>
> Elizabeth
> Seattle
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


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[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

face="arial,helvetica"> face="Comic Sans MS" lang="0">Hi Folks---



What do you think here?  Until I received this email today I've never thought
having the heat pack in direct contact with my styrofoam popcorn packing
was contraindicated.  Is it wise to place a heat pack inside a small paper
bag for that reason?



lang="0">

style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0,0,255); margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px;">I
don't like to have heat in conctact with the styro popcorn on the off

chance that it will release some unwanted gasses.  That's why I use


=== message truncated ===

---

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