Re: [gecko]quarantine U. ebenaui (update)

[Neil Meister]

Title: Re: [gecko]quarantine U. ebenaui (update)

Hi Mike,

A sulfa drug makes sense. Just curious, how often are you supposed to treat the geckos?

Coccidia often comes back after short treatments with Albon. Some species can apparently

encyst in the intestinal wall and reappear down the road. It's not usually fatal of itself,

but with delicate gex it's just one more straw on the camel's back. I've brought back animals

that looked simply awful and others with low levels of coccidia and in good health can sometimes

be acclimated without treatment. Since you've had vomiting, it's definitely worth medicating.

Normally wild geckos don't constantly come in contact with their own waste, the

coccidia don't get out of control. In shipping, warehousing and the terrarium they can be

repeatedly  exposed to oocysts (sort of an "egg"). The oocysts can remain in the

environment for long periods, so the cleaning is really important to prevent another

outbreak. Very high heat is supposed to kill coccidia, kind of hard on geckos and plastic

vivaria though ; )

Neil

Thanks, Julie and Neil. Well from a web search it seems Novotrimel contains sulfamethoxazole. The geckos don't appear to have runny stool. Their stool actually seems to have been hardening up in the past week so I suppose that is a good sign. I do have them alternating between two Tupperware containers as you said. I am also using short lengths of PVC pipe as shelters because these are easy to clean and the bathroom rolls are really messy when they get wet. I just soak them in the bleach solution in the containers.

 

Well, Neil, your prognosis sounds grim if even bleach can't kill it <insert worry here>. I suppose if it's a common bug the geckos should turn out all right. And as Julie said, it hasn't killed her lizards so I hope it won't kill mine. So am I to assume that the geckos' immune systems themselves can kill the parasites, or is this just a bug that they will always live with and will recur if the geckos are stressed? I think keeping them in a Tupperware box seems really stressful in itself  ;o)

 

I will keep you updated.

 

Mike

----- Original Message -----

From: Neil A. Meister

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 2:46 PM

Subject: Re: [gecko]quarantine U. ebenaui (update)

Hi Mike,

This very common, especially in wc Uroplatus. Some animals never show symptoms,

other have runny stool, become lethargic and waste away. The level of coccidia and stress

are two important factors.

Strict hygiene is important. I use only disposable materials in the cage and clean completely

daily. Having two cages so you can move the geckos into one and clean the other is a good idea.

I haven't found anything gecko-safe that can kill the oocysts (even bleach doesn't work), so

thorough cleaning and rinsing is the best you can do. Be  careful so to spread it to any other

herps you may have.

I'm not familiar with Novotrimel, do you know the active ingredients are. Do any vets on the

list use it? I've used Albon (sulfadimethoxine) many times for this. Treatment was anywhere

from 9 to 12 days. Even if coccidia wasn't eliminated, it was greatly reduced and most animals

recovered.

Good luck,

Neil

I took the geckos into the vet on Friday and the vet said they looked good. They've been eating as well (with no vomiting) so I was quite happy. I got the call today that the fecal test test results came back and my geckos have Eimeria spp. oocysts (coccidia) so now I have to medicate them. Poor things. The drug is Novotrimel. He wants to see another fecal 3 weeks from the end of the medication. I suppose this means I'll have to throw away all my fancy plants that I was using for the vivarium. But I wouldn't want to risk reinfection.

 

Anyway, that's the update. I'm not really sure what coccidia does to geckos but it seems to be a bad thing in poultry livestock.

 

Mike

----- Original Message -----

From: Neil A. Meister

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:10 AM

Subject: Re: [gecko]how do I quarantine LTC U. ebenaui

Hi Mike,

Quarantine for LTC is the same as for WC. It is definitely worth finding out what the problem

is before treating as the wrong meds will do no good and stress a weakened animal.

How long is LTC in this case?

What you're seeing is not uncommon. I suspect protozoa of some sort, coccidia is the most common

problem. If your gecko is vomiting, it does need help. Keep collecting fecal samples in case

the first one is negative. Repeat fecals at least 3 times if negative to be sure nothing

is missed. One negative only means there was nothing found in that particular sample,

no that the gecko is free of parasites.

your temperatures are a little cool. 60's is good for night, but a few degrees warmer (72-76)

is better for day temps. A weak basking light placed over a cork tube or similar hide spot

should work in your situation.

I quarantine small Uros in critter keepers or tall rubbermaids that are easily washed and rinsed.

Bedding is paper towel (brown if you can get it) with a few bits of dried leaves or moss

on top. Add a few climbing branches and a papertowel tube for hiding. Clean out feces daily.

If you find parasites, cleaning will have to be more rigorous. Having two similar cages set up

so you can move the geckos to a clean one while disinfecting the other is a good idea.

Mist 2-3 times per day and cover part of the lid with a piece of plastic to keep in humidity

if required.

Do not use vermiculite for a substrate. It could be ingested when the geckos lunge at prey.

I'm not crazy about using more than one med at a time. I like to use one, wait a few days, then use

the other if more than one is necessary. Definitely get a vet opinion if you have to medicate.

Good luck,

Neil

Let me first apologize if this is long-winded.

 

Late last week I picked up a pair of LTC Uroplatus. After reading about care of recent imports I got the general idea that people didn't like to medicate their geckos for no reason and since I didn't have a fecal sample I wasn't in a rush to call the vet for debugging meds.

 

The evening after I brought them home they ate. The evening after that, they ate again. This was obviously a good sign but the crickets I was feeding them, although appearing small when I put them in the enclosure, were sort of big for the geckos (1/2-3/4" crix, 4" geckos). It's been 3 days since they ate but they still go into hunting pose when they see crickets. They just don't strike.

 

Today I found two crickets vomited up (2 crickets in the same vomit so from one gecko). The other gecko passed feces and I collected this for the vet for tomorrow <crosses fingers that he's there>. I took both geckos out of the enclosure and let them walk on my hands so I could examine them. The male looks decent enough but the female seems "ribby"; not tremendously, but ribby nonetheless. Her pelvis seems boney, too. She was the one that vomited. They jump around from hand to hand, though.

 

I might also mention that the temperature in the enclosure is mid to high 60's. I don't know if this is a problem. A friend suggested I use a small red bulb to bring the heat up to the low 70's but I'm afraid to try that. I also thought about a low temperature heat tape but that also scares me a bit :o) Come summer, I know the temperature will be perfect.

 

SO, I now want to quarantine these geckos in a "sterile" environment so I can closely monitor them and collect clean fecal samples if I need to. What I would like to know is, how can I create such an environment? Sterile enclosures are generally dry, IME. Would something like moist vermiculite be a good bedding with a few plastic branches for the geckos to climp on? How do other Uroplatus keepers quarantine their animals?

 

Thank for any help or suggestions. I'll suggest Flagyl and Panacur to the vet for a debugging regimen and see what he says. That seems to be the general method.

 

Mike

--

Neil Meister

Promotions Secretary
Global Gecko Association

http://www.gekkota.com

http://www.gekkota.com/html/gecko_night_2002.html

President
Nova Scotia Herpetoculture Society

http://users.eastlink.ca/~nshs

--

Neil Meister

Promotions Secretary
Global Gecko Association
http://www.gekkota.com

http://www.gekkota.com/html/gecko_night_2002.html

President
Nova Scotia Herpetoculture Society

http://users.eastlink.ca/~nshs

-- 

Neil Meister
Semaphor Design Company Inc.
6450 Young Street, Suite 4
Halifax, NS  B3L 2A3
Canada
902.455.0133 ext 4