Mr. Derek. I condone the laws in Norway but I agree with you on the count of irresponsibility. When I bought my first herps 7 or 8 years ago I truthfully didn't know that they were in fact illegal. Shortly after that I learnt that they were illegal but at that point I didn't dare to apply for a dispensation to keep these because I was afraid that my animals would be confiscated and killed. As so many other people in my country have done before me. After I got my first herps and learnt about the law I have still acquired new species and animals, this was because of my interest for the hobby and my love for these animals. At present my conscience torments me in more than one way, constantly reminding me that my love for my animals may very well be the one that can get them killed if my situation escalates in the wrong direction. As you point out this makes all herpers in my country criminals. Now, since I am committee member of the Norwegian herpetological association, also since my animals copulate and produce offspring, I am in my governments eyes "a central person in a criminal environment with ties to illegal trade of exotic animals". Even the fact that I have tried to sell much of my offspring outside of my country makes me "person conducting illegal export of exotic animals for personal financial gain". I have problems formulating myself but you get the idea.. How can I blame the officials who are processing my application for dispensation? They are humans that don't know much about geckoes, confronted with this type of information, would anyone in their right mind grant me a dispensation? I think not.. ?
This is an update about my case that I was planning to post in the kingsnake forum but I guess that it may be relevant to this thread. Regards V�len G�nev (obeligz) ------------------------------------------------------------- I have been digging into the underground herpetoculturist community (?) to try to dig into what has been happening in my country all these years that have passed. My findings have shocked me. I have found severe examples of animal cruelty and cases where my government must have acted out side of thee law, I can not understand that such practice can be legal. >From my conversations with many people all over my country I got my suspicions confirmed that most people in Norway who keep herptiles are in fact normal individuals such that are feeling like criminals because my government pursues the herpetoculturists in Norway. Although in theory it is possible to obtain dispensation to keep herptiles in Norway, no one dares to apply for such dispensations. It is known that such applications are declined for even the most common of herps like for example leopard geckoes, kingsnakes and even the most common frog. People in Norway are afraid that if they should apply for dispensation then the government will hunt them down, confiscate their herps and kill the animals. To ensure that my government cannot be confronted with this they have been issuing some dispensations for one species of terrestrial turtle to people who have allergy towards furry animals. This in if fact, the only way in Norway to obtain a dispensation in real life (very rare exceptions to this practice have been known to occur). I have also been looking into people getting caught.... In during the last 20 or so years I have found about 4-5 precedents of people who have been caught, applied for dispensation and were allowed to keep their animals. In all other cases the animals were put to sleep. Rough estimates show that as much as 1000 animals yearly are seized from hobbyists and put to death. In some cases the practice of this has highly questionable. In some cases the animals have been put to death without proper identification, meaning that, in theory species can be extinct this way. In some cases under which the animals have been euthanased is highly questionable in itself. For the last week I have been unable to sleep, my conscience has been keeping me awake. How can one sleep when ones animals are taken away and their life is in danger? Finally yesterday I broke down mentally and went to bed. When I woke up 16 hours later I had several messages and unanswered calls on my mobile phone. As the situation progresses more people in Norway are taking control of their fear, letting their guard down, trusting me and coming forth anonymously, giving me information on grave happenings and malpractice by my government. I hope to continue be able to uphold international focus on this matter. I fear that one more of my worst fears is confirmed, world wide, our hobby is more and more restricted as time goes. I have problems finding the right words and expressing myself but annually more and more laws to restrict our hobby are passed. These laws are proposed by various organisations that would like to limit or ban the keeping the animals in captivity. I do not understand this. Why? What is going to happen to the fauna and fauna of the world as man continues to expand his territory? Annually more and more natural habitats are influenced negatively by human intervention. Annually habitats are being destroyed and species extinct. Who cares about all this? Most people don't. The people who really care about these things happening are the people who love animals, flora and fauna. People who keep orchids are the ones concerned about their welfare on a global scale. People who keep herptiles are the ones most concerned with their animals welfare. In brief, every hobby has it's own enthusiasts who stand for their rights. The sad fact is that there is not enough cooperation between the various hobbies. Multinational corporations are most concerned with getting more power and more wealth. The last ones have great power and resources that are unmatched by any single organisation of animal rights or any other organisation that shows the right ethical values. Such powerful international corporations are able to pick down and out power on the isolated individual organisations that interested in flora and fauna where a conflict of interest happens. I have very limited knowledge of these things as I am relatively new to my hobby, which is illegal in my country. Still, I can bring out as an example the case of some of my species of interest. In New Caledonia, The habitat of origin of New Caledonia�s Giant geckoes is annually destroyed by deforestation and industrial surface mining. This renders areas of human intervention uninhabitable for the giant geckoes. Also, there is another factor on which I dare not speculate to much on, this could never be proved but it seems strange that New Caledonia also has some introduced species (such as red fire ants) which also destroy the habitat of New Caledonian giant geckoes. Wouldn't it in theory be easier to get permits to work in areas where introduced species already have decimated the populations of endangered species? It seems to me that introduced species that destroy native habitats of (often sensitive) endangered species are not easily stopped. In such cases the only hope for preserving species is to establish captive populations in the private sector, hobbyists. Unfortunately there is a trend that government for some reason are becoming more and more restrictive in terms of what is allowed kept by hobbyists. More unfortunate Norway, my government seems to be in the head of this movement. Herptiles in Norway are illegal and enthusiasts who keep such animals risk fines of up to 5800 euros and imprisonment of up to one year for keeping such animals in captivity. What is to become of our world I ask myself. Is this trend going to continue until there are but a few scattered spots of wild flora and fauna left? What happened at that point? Are we going to thoroughly catalogue and record the details of the last scattered pieces of wildlife into our history books before they disappear altogether? My government will soon try to face me with the consequences of my criminal actions. Are they aware of the consequences of their own actions? Are they aware of the fact that they are in the head of a chain of events that could lead to... What could it lead to? My mind fails to grasp the potential extent global destruction of flora and fauna world wide and what consequences this may have on mankind and more importantly, the planet we so much love.... -------------------- obeligz msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] )/_ �� �������������� _.--..---"-,--c_ ���� ������� \L..'���������� ._O__)_ � �� ,-.���� _.+� _� \..--( /��������� ��� �� `\.-''__.-'\ (���� \_ ��� ����� `'''������ `\__�� /\ ���� ��������������� ') -----Opprinnelig melding----- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] P� vegne av Derek C. Sendt: 30. april 2004 08:11 Til: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Emne: [gecko]Re: [repchat] Obeligz: Updates on Norwegian Gecko Seizure While I don't condone the laws in Norway, I am kind of surprised that nobody pointed out the irresponsibility of keeping animals when you know that they are illegal and the penalty if you are caught is death to the animals. The only victims in this case are the animals who are going to be put to death and the people who are trying to use legal means to have these laws changed as this kind of incident makes all herpers look like criminals. -Derek At 10:20 PM 4/29/2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >Hi Folks--- > >For updates from Obeligz on the seizure of his geckos check the following >link: > ><http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=433836,433836>Kingsnake.com - >Herpforum - Laws in Norway, please help > >Elizabeth >Seattle > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Global Gecko Association http://www.gekkota.com Classifieds http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi gecko mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko _______________________________________________ Global Gecko Association http://www.gekkota.com Classifieds http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi gecko mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko
