This version looks good to me.

Thanks!

Ben.

On Jun 3, 2012, at 1:35 PM, Donald Eastlake wrote:

> Hi Ben,
> 
> Attached is a version incorporating changes to resolve your comments
> and a wdiff against the current -04 version. However, given the
> proximity to the IESG tele chat, I do not plan to upload this version
> before that call.
> 
> Thanks,
> Donald
> =============================
>  Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
>  155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA
>  [email protected]
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 9:43 AM, Donald Eastlake <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Hi Ben,
>> 
>> On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 3:18 PM, Ben Campbell <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Thanks for the quick response. Further comments inline. I deleted sections 
>>> that do not appear to need further discussion.
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> 
>>> Ben.
>>> 
>>> On Jun 1, 2012, at 10:45 AM, Donald Eastlake wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Ben,
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for your review. See responses below.
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 6:08 PM, Ben Campbell <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. For background on
>>>>> Gen-ART, please see the FAQ at
>>>>> < http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/area/gen/trac/wiki/GenArtfaq>.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Please wait for direction from your document shepherd
>>>>> or AD before posting a new version of the draft.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Document: draft-ietf-trill-rbridge-extension-04
>>>>> Reviewer: Ben Campbell
>>>>> Review Date: 2012-05-31
>>>>> IETF LC End Date: 2012-06-07
>>>>> IESG Telechat date: 2012-06-07
>>>>> 
>>>>> Note: Since this draft is on the agenda of the IESG Telechat on the
>>>>> same day that the IETF last call expires, this review is intended
>>>>> for both purposes.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Summary:
>>>>> 
>>>>> This draft is almost ready for publication as a proposed standard,
>>>>> but I have some clarification questions and comments that should be
>>>>> considered prior to publication.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Major issues:
>>>>> 
>>>>> None
>>>>> 
>>>>> Minor issues:
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- section 2, general:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Do the authors assume that all TRILL extensions will follow this
>>>>> spec? Since RFC6325 already specifies an extension mechanism, what
>>>>> stops an extension from ignoring this spec and doing something
>>>>> different? Does it hurt if they do?
>>>> 
>>>> I am not aware of any conflicts between this draft and RFC 6325. RFC
>>>> 6325 provides the broadest header option framework, for example
>>>> specifying the field for the length of the options area and the
>>>> initial two critical summary bits. This document fills in the
>>>> structure and allocation mechanism of the remaining bits in the first
>>>> 4-byte word of the options area, consistent with and repeating some
>>>> material from RFC 6325, but leaving specification of the remainder of
>>>> the options area for future documents, which should be consistent with
>>>> both RFC 6325 and this document. (For example, some future version of
>>>> draft-ietf-trill-rbridge-options.)
>>> 
>>> I agree there is no conflict--this draft adds details, but doesn't seem to 
>>> contradict anything in the RFC.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> However, neither RFC 6325 nor this document can actually actually bind
>>>> the IETF against adopting future standards describing extensions that
>>>> do not conform.
>>> 
>>> Certainly. Nothing can do that. The IETF can always update a protocol to 
>>> change normative language, no matter how strongly it was stated originally 
>>> :-)
>>> 
>>>> If future changes do not follow RFC 6325 or this
>>>> document, for example changing the location or interpretation of the
>>>> option length field in the TRILL Header or changing the interpretation
>>>> of the critical summary bits in the first word of the options area,
>>>> then this would break hardware and software implementations that
>>>> depend on RFC 6325 and/or this document. But I trust the IETF to
>>>> adhere to its usually high standards for backwards compatibility.
>>>> 
>>>> Perhaps this draft should, in the first page header, say "Updates:
>>>> 6325", not in the sense that it makes a change but in the sense that
>>>> it fills in more details.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Assuming the additional details in this draft comprise preferred extension 
>>> mechanism, then I think it makes sense to say that somewhere (perhaps a 
>>> SHOULD strength), and also mark it as updating 6325. Adding details is 
>>> still an update.
>> 
>> OK.
>> 
>>>>> -- section 2, 3rd paragraph from end: "Non-critical extensions can
>>>>>   be safely ignored."
>>>>> 
>>>>> Is that intended to be normative? (Seems like it should be, since
>>>>> behavior for critical extensions is normative).
>>>> 
>>>> I think of it as more like the definition of "non-critical".
>>> 
>>> Sure--I mainly mention it to be consistent with the text for "critical" 
>>> extensions, since it did use normative language about dropping frames.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> -- section 2.1, 1st paragraph, last sentence:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Redundant with normative language in previous section.
>>>> 
>>>> ? There is a normative requirement to discard frames with any
>>>> unimplemented critical hop-by-hop options present, which might be
>>>> thought to require examination of all options (something manifestly
>>>> impossible since the format of options beyond the first word of the
>>>> options area is not yet normatively specified). The sentence to which
>>>> you refer just clarifies that testing the appropriate crtical summary
>>>> bit(s) in the first word of the options area, if that word is present,
>>>> is all that is required.
>>> 
>>> section 2 says "Any RBridge receiving a frame with a critical hop-by-hop 
>>> extension  that it does not implement MUST discard the frame...". Section 
>>> 2.1 says "If an RBridge does not implement all critical flags in a TRILL 
>>> Data frame, it MUST discard the frame..." These really seem like the same 
>>> MUST (i.e, if you updated one but not the other, you would have an 
>>> ambiguous state). The same is true for the egress bit.
>>> 
>>> I understand that you want to draw the connection between a "critical 
>>> extension" and "critical flags", but it's better to avoid having multiple 
>>> bits of authoritative text for the same normative requirement. Perhaps it 
>>> might be better to say something like "If the RBridge does not implement 
>>> all critical flags... it MUST treat the frame as having an unimplemented 
>>> critical extension as described in section 2"
>> 
>> I'm OK with your suggested wording.
>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> -- section 2.3, first paragraph:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Is the first sentence intended as normative?
>>>> 
>>>> Yes. When one is describing part of a protocol and you say that some
>>>> particular contiguous block of bits is some particular field (and then
>>>> possibly describe the sub-structure of that field) isn't that always
>>>> normative?
>>> 
>>> Never mind, I misread the sentence. Sorry for the confusion.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> -- section 6, last paragraph:
>>>>> 
>>>>> No security implications of this are mentioned. Is it really a
>>>>> security consideration?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Also, is this more likely to be set incorrectly than all the other
>>>>> things that some implementation might screw up, so that it warrants
>>>>> special treatment?
>>>> 
>>>> I tend to think that a discussion of what happens if bits are
>>>> corrupted or incorrectly set is something reasonable for the Security
>>>> Considerations section, although it could be elsewhere. The second
>>>> paragraph/sentence of this section says that security considerations
>>>> for any bits in the first word of the options area will be in the
>>>> document specifying those bits. This document specifies the critical
>>>> summary bits and the RBridge Channel Alert bits so there is text on
>>>> both of those in its Security Considerations Section.
>>> 
>>> On re-reading the paragraph, I can see interpreting it to mean that 
>>> incorrectly set flags explicitly do not cause a security problem, which I 
>>> agree is reasonable to say in the security considerations. So, never mind 
>>> :-)
>>> 
>>> [...]
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- section 2, bullet list, 2nd bullet: " ... which would only
>>>>>   necessarily affect the RBridge(s) where a TRILL frame is
>>>>>   decapsulated"
>>>>> 
>>>>> Does that mean it always affects the decapsulating RBridge but might
>>>>> effect transit RBridges as well?
>>>> 
>>>> Yes.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Okay, no problem.
>>> 
>>>>> -- section 2, first paragraph after bullet list: "critical
>>>>>   hop-by-hop extension"
>>>>> 
>>>>> I assume this means an extension with the critical flag set? If so,
>>>>> it would be more precise to say that.
>>>> 
>>>> This draft was split out of a more general draft that covered
>>>> extensions in general. The three paragraphs after the bullet list on
>>>> critical / non-critical extensions apply to all extensions as well as
>>>> the flag bits in the first word of the options area. So this means
>>>> critical header extensions flags and any other types of critical
>>>> options specified in the future.
>>> 
>>> Okay
>>> 
>>> [...]
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> -- section 5:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Since section 3 is entirely composed of the referenced table, and
>>>>> seems to exist mostly if not entirely for the purpose of this
>>>>> reference, why not just move the table to the IANA considerations
>>>>> section.
>>>> 
>>>> (Looking at Section 3, I believe the reference there to the IANA
>>>> Considerations Section should be to Section 5 rather than Section 6.)
>>>> 
>>>> I guess I don't actually see any problem with the current document
>>>> structure that I think flows better for someone reading it from the
>>>> start. I suppose it imposes a tiny burden on someone who is just
>>>> looking at the IANA Considerations Section. I don't see why it would
>>>> be better to make it a tiny bit easier for someone just looking at the
>>>> IANA Considerations Section while imposing a tiny burdne on those
>>>> reading through the document from the start.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Okay. I was interpreting it as existing entirely for the IANA 
>>> registration--but if you believe it adds value to the "body" of the text, I 
>>> am okay with it.
>>> 
>>> [...]
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Donald
>> =============================
>>  Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
>>  155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA
>>  [email protected]
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