Sigh. This caused me to get out my grandfather's copy
of Webster's New International, dated 1920. (Although
why an Englishman bought a copy of Webster in 1920 has
always confused me.)

'unsecure' is listed in the small print section as a synonym
for 'insecure', tagged /rare/.

Regards
   Brian

On 04/06/2015 04:25, Elwyn Davies wrote:
> Hi, Francis.
> 
> On 03/06/2015 15:55, Francis Dupont wrote:
>> <snip>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> [email protected]
>>
>> PS for native English speakers: is unsecure proper English? My speller
>> says insecure and unsecured are but not unsecure.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
> 
> In modern usage "insecure" is (pretty much) always used for something that is 
> not secure (e.g., The lock on that door is
> insecure.).  Checking back into the nearest thing we have to an authoritative 
> source, the (full) Oxford English Dictionary (OED)
> *does* have an entry for "unsecure" but it is marked  Obs(olete) and the 
> small number of quotations using it hark
> back to the 19th century and earlier.  So it isn't 'wrong' but it is archaic.
> 
> <etymology nerd mode on>
> 
> The answer for American English may be different. (e.g.,
> http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/19653/insecure-or-unsecure-when-dealing-with-security)
>  or it may just be jargon in
> things like financial systems.
> 
> Checking in my ancient paper dictionary (early 20th C), it has "insecure" and 
> "unsecured" as per your speller.  However it
> caught my eye (and tweaked my memory) that both "indiscipline" and 
> "undiscipline" *are* both used in modern English. There is
> possibly a very subtle difference in meaning.
> 
> For etymological nerds, both my old dictionary and the OED give "insecure" as 
> a separate head word whereas there is a humungous
> entry for "un-" as a prefix including "unsecured", "undiscipline" and a vast 
> number of other un's.  To quote the Collin's
> dictionary:
> 
> 
>    un-^2
> 
> prefix
> 1.
> denoting reversal of an action or state: uncover, untangle
> 2.
> denoting removal from, release, or deprivation: unharness, unman, unthrone
> 3.
> (intensifier): unloose
> 
> and from the Online Etymology Dictionary:
> ...
> Freely and widely used since Old English in compounds with native and 
> imported words, it disputes with Latin-derived cognate in-
> <http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/in->the right to form the negation of 
> certain words ( indigestable/undigestable, etc.).
> Often euphemistic (e.g. untruth for "lie"). The most prolific of English 
> prefixes, it even is used to make words from phrases
> (e.g. uncalled-for, c.1600; undreamed-of, 1630s; uncome-at-able, 1690s; 
> unputdownable, 1947, of a book;
> un-in-one-breath-utterable, Ben Jonson; etc., but not restricted to un- ; cf. 
> put-up-able-with, 1812). As a prefix in
> telegram-ese to replace not <http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/not>and 
> save the cost of a word, it is first attested 1936.
> 
> Yes.. the entry for Un- in my old dictionary runs to about 10 pages in very 
> small type.
> 
> So, the authors of the draft can probably claim that they have 'freely used' 
> unsecure as the negative of secure and you can't
> really complain.
> 
> Thinking about it, I wouldn't have any difficulty in using the verb "to 
> unsecure" (see meaning 2 above) meaning remove the means
> securing something ("Take off the padlock" perhaps)... "unsecured" is the 
> past participle of this verb.   BUT AFAIK there isn't
> a corresponding verb "to insecure" in use - it just sounds wrong! What a daft 
> language!
> 
> <etymology nerd mode off>
> 
> Well, you did ask...
> 
> /Elwyn
> 
> 
> 
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> 

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