Thanks David. That completely responds to my comments.

Regards
   Brian

On 21/09/2017 10:45, Black, David wrote:
> Brian,
> 
> I'm about to post the -06 version of this draft.   The concern on RFC 3168 
> impact of the ECN nonce removal was resolved by listing the four major 
> changes (and you were correct that the change to Section 20.2 is subtle - I 
> got it wrong on my first attempt in responding to your email).  Here's the 
> specific text that I've added to Section 3 of the draft:
> 
>    The four primary updates to RFC 3168 that remove discussion of the
>    ECN nonce and use of ECT(1) for that nonce are:
> 
>    1.  Remove the paragraph in Section 5 that immediately follows
>        Figure 1; this paragraph discusses the ECN nonce as the
>        motivation for two ECT codepoints.
> 
>    2.  Remove Section 11.2 "A Discussion of the ECN nonce." in its
>        entirety.
> 
>    3.  Remove the last paragraph of Section 12, which states that ECT(1)
>        may be used as part of the implementation of the ECN nonce.
> 
>    4.  Remove the first two paragraphs of Section 20.2, which discuss
>        the ECN nonce and alternatives.  No changes are made to the rest
>        of Section 20.2, which discusses alternate uses for the fourth
>        ECN codepoint.
> 
>    Additional minor changes remove other mentions of the ECN nonce and
>    implications that ECT(1) is intended for use by the ECN nonce; the
>    specific text updates are omitted for brevity.
> 
> The proverbial "rest of the story" is that an RFC 3168bis effort appears to 
> be a good idea, e.g., as RFC 6040 has already made some visible changes. The 
> preferred 3168bis timing appears to be after we understand the outcomes of 
> the current proposed of experiments, as they're likely to result in another 
> round of changes to RFC 3168.
> 
> Many thanks, and chalk this up as one more instance where a GenART review has 
> visibly improved the quality of a draft,  --David
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Brian E Carpenter [mailto:[email protected]]
>> Sent: Friday, September 1, 2017 7:41 PM
>> To: Black, David <[email protected]>; [email protected]
>> Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-ecn-
>> experimentation-05
>>
>> On 02/09/2017 09:45, Black, David wrote:
>>> Brian,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the prompt review.
>>>
>>>> Comment: Very clear from the technical standpoint.
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>>
>>>> I understand the desire for brevity, but this bothers me a bit. What is
>>>> the reader to make of RFC3168 Section 20.2, for example? My feeling is
>>>> that a short Appendix outlining the specific updates would be useful.
>>>> There's already too much spaghetti to untangle.
>>>
>>> RFC 3168 Section 20.2 is the rationale for the ECN Nonce and hence would
>> be
>>> deleted. Request noted, I'll consult with the draft shepherd and
>> responsible
>>> AD to figure out whether to do this.
>>
>> Thanks. It's not intended as a blocking issue.
>>
>>>
>>>> I see no reason why RFC3540 and RFC5622 need to be normative
>> references
>>>> (and therefore downrefs). They aren't required reading in order to
>>>> understand this draft.
>>>
>>> OTOH, both are affected by this draft:
>>>
>>> In reverse order, this draft updates RFC 5622 - that seems to merit a
>>> normative reference.    This draft also provides the rationale for the
>>> status change of RFC 3540 to Historic, which also seems to merit a
>>> normative reference.
>>
>> Well, my understanding is that a normative reference is needed only
>> when the citing document cannot be understood and implemented
>> without reading the cited document.
>>
>> Again it's not a blocking comment - although there is a technical error
>> in the Last Call message: it flags the downref to 5622, but not that to 3540.
>> I don't know if that's a tool error or an AD error ;-).
>>
>>     Brian
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks, --David
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Brian Carpenter [mailto:[email protected]]
>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 10:02 PM
>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>> Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]
>>>> Subject: Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-ecn-experimentation-
>> 05
>>>>
>>>> Reviewer: Brian Carpenter
>>>> Review result: Ready with Issues
>>>>
>>>> Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-ietf-tsvwg-ecn-experimentation-05
>>>>
>>>> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area
>>>> Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed
>>>> by the IESG for the IETF Chair.  Please treat these comments just
>>>> like any other last call comments.
>>>>
>>>> For more information, please see the FAQ at
>>>> <http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/area/gen/trac/wiki/GenArtfaq>.
>>>>
>>>> Document: draft-ietf-tsvwg-ecn-experimentation-05.txt
>>>> Reviewer: Brian Carpenter
>>>> Review Date: 2017-09-01
>>>> IETF LC End Date: 2017-09-14
>>>> IESG Telechat date: 2017-09-14
>>>>
>>>> Summary: Ready with (minor) issues
>>>> --------
>>>>
>>>> Comment: Very clear from the technical standpoint.
>>>> --------
>>>>
>>>> Minor Issues:
>>>> -------------
>>>>
>>>>> 3.  ECN Nonce and RFC 3540
>>>> ...
>>>>> o  Updates RFC 3168 [RFC3168] to remove discussion of the ECN Nonce
>>>>>    and use of ECT(1) for that Nonce.  The specific text updates are
>>>>>    omitted for brevity.
>>>>
>>>> I understand the desire for brevity, but this bothers me a bit. What is
>>>> the reader to make of RFC3168 Section 20.2, for example? My feeling is
>>>> that a short Appendix outlining the specific updates would be useful.
>>>> There's already too much spaghetti to untangle.
>>>>
>>>> I see no reason why RFC3540 and RFC5622 need to be normative
>> references
>>>> (and therefore downrefs). They aren't required reading in order to
>>>> understand this draft.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>

_______________________________________________
Gen-art mailing list
[email protected]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art

Reply via email to