Lightbreather, I wish you the best, and I want you to know that I appreciate your voice of reason. Hopefully, things will change in the future, and you'll return to wiki activities as no one deserves to be silenced.
Best, Rosie Rosie Stephenson-Goodknight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rosiestep @rosiestepgood On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 5:00 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Send Gendergap mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Gendergap digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Retired (LB) > 2. Re: Retired (Kevin Gorman) > 3. Re: Retired (LB) > 4. Re: Retired (Carol Moore dc) > 5. Re: Retired (Neotarf) > 6. Re: Retired (Neotarf) > 7. Re: Retired (Risker) > 8. Re: Retired (Jane Darnell) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 17:35:04 -0700 > From: LB <[email protected]> > To: Gender gap mailing list <[email protected]> > Subject: [Gendergap] Retired > Message-ID: > < > caht1ectba_jn_+p3yky0jwfu5z3xs5yud7x5r5nohxqvl9e...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Due to off-wiki harassment, I have retired. Thank you to those of you who > have been friendly with me over the past year. > > Lightbreather > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/gendergap/attachments/20150526/bacd514a/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 17:39:37 -0700 > From: Kevin Gorman <[email protected]> > To: "Addressing gender equity and exploring ways to increase the > participation of women within Wikimedia projects." > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Retired > Message-ID: > < > cajja526apjavqsnasvuv-zv-7eweo6vzq0+1v+xxft0a_qi...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Lightbreather - > > I know I haven't been very active lately (I wound up with sepsis,) but I am > sorry to see you go. I'm not very familiar with the on-wiki side of what > happened to you, but I think it should be an urgent priority for WMF to > develop better tools (and a culture that uses them) to handle both on-wiki > and off-wiki harassment. I wish you the best, thank you for your > contributions so far, and hope there's a time in the future where changes > have been made to the point that you are interested in and comfortable > coming back. > > Best, > Kevin Gorman > > On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 5:35 PM, LB <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Due to off-wiki harassment, I have retired. Thank you to those of you who > > have been friendly with me over the past year. > > > > Lightbreather > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Gendergap mailing list > > [email protected] > > To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please > > visit: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/gendergap/attachments/20150526/621651e0/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 17:42:38 -0700 > From: LB <[email protected]> > To: "Addressing gender equity and exploring ways to increase the > participation of women within Wikimedia projects." > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Retired > Message-ID: > < > caht1ecttxbodnp6rkqzv98cfh-nnmetjpy2pc8ahhsmn8mn...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Sorry to hear that you were ill, and thank you for the kind thoughts. > > Lightbreather > > On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 5:39 PM, Kevin Gorman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hi Lightbreather - > > > > I know I haven't been very active lately (I wound up with sepsis,) but I > > am sorry to see you go. I'm not very familiar with the on-wiki side of > > what happened to you, but I think it should be an urgent priority for WMF > > to develop better tools (and a culture that uses them) to handle both > > on-wiki and off-wiki harassment. I wish you the best, thank you for your > > contributions so far, and hope there's a time in the future where changes > > have been made to the point that you are interested in and comfortable > > coming back. > > > > Best, > > Kevin Gorman > > > > On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 5:35 PM, LB <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Due to off-wiki harassment, I have retired. Thank you to those of you > who > >> have been friendly with me over the past year. > >> > >> Lightbreather > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Gendergap mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please > >> visit: > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Gendergap mailing list > > [email protected] > > To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please > > visit: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/gendergap/attachments/20150526/8b88d735/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 26 May 2015 21:49:04 -0400 > From: Carol Moore dc <[email protected]> > To: "Addressing gender equity and exploring ways to increase the > participation of women within Wikimedia projects." > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Retired > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > On 5/26/2015 8:35 PM, LB wrote: > > Due to off-wiki harassment, I have retired. Thank you to those of you > > who have been friendly with me over the past year. > > > > Lightbreather > > > > > Plus all that on-wiki harassment! > > I did notice something interesting and actually positive in > Lightbreather's arbitration, compared to GGTF and others I've seen. > > Which is that now editors only can comment on Arbitration talk pages in > their own sections. This lessens opportunities for drive-by harassing > taunts against, and replies against, various editors who harassers are > trying to get kicked off Wikipedia. They have to take responsibility in > their own sections. Perhaps my screaming about "institutionalized > harassment at Arbcom" had at least this minor effect... I hope they > keep it for all future arbitrations... > > Announcement on this page, after which went into effect. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Lightbreather/Evidence#Sectioned_discussion_is_now_in_effect_on_this_page > > Also in effect here. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Lightbreather/Workshop > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 00:06:04 -0400 > From: Neotarf <[email protected]> > To: "Addressing gender equity and exploring ways to increase the > participation of women within Wikimedia projects." > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Retired > Message-ID: > < > calikunmsmyp6hn6ksbffngykvtf9s8hsrw0jpvjaxt3w9vk...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Totally understandable. I too have also been sexually harassed and doxxed, > on at least two other sites besides WP. The ArbCom and the WMF are well > aware of it, and have been unwilling to lift a finger against it. > > There is a book about cyber harassment making the rounds: "Hate Crimes in > Cyberspace" by Danielle Keats Citron ISBN 978-0-674-36829-3 describing both > the horrible price that individuals pay and the legal underpinnings of the > problem. It's a pity WP is not in the vanguard of this movement in the same > way it has pioneered in other areas. Instead, those who report harassment > will find themselves treated worse than the harassers. > > On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 9:49 PM, Carol Moore dc <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > On 5/26/2015 8:35 PM, LB wrote: > > > >> Due to off-wiki harassment, I have retired. Thank you to those of you > who > >> have been friendly with me over the past year. > >> > >> Lightbreather > >> > >> > >> Plus all that on-wiki harassment! > > > > I did notice something interesting and actually positive in > > Lightbreather's arbitration, compared to GGTF and others I've seen. > > > > Which is that now editors only can comment on Arbitration talk pages in > > their own sections. This lessens opportunities for drive-by harassing > > taunts against, and replies against, various editors who harassers are > > trying to get kicked off Wikipedia. They have to take responsibility in > > their own sections. Perhaps my screaming about "institutionalized > > harassment at Arbcom" had at least this minor effect... I hope they keep > > it for all future arbitrations... > > > > Announcement on this page, after which went into effect. > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Lightbreather/Evidence#Sectioned_discussion_is_now_in_effect_on_this_page > > > > Also in effect here. > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Lightbreather/Workshop > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Gendergap mailing list > > [email protected] > > To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please > > visit: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/gendergap/attachments/20150527/3295bee0/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 00:21:01 -0400 > From: Neotarf <[email protected]> > To: "Addressing gender equity and exploring ways to increase the > participation of women within Wikimedia projects." > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Retired > Message-ID: > <CALikuNnJTtcCODizDJRQO-n3ZwDFhc5FME== > [email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > This might also be a good time to mention the conversation about harassment > on the recent Inspire grant project. Fourteen of the proposals were > concerned with managing harassment. I don't believe I ever saw anyone from > the Foundation comment on this. > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Community_discussion_on_harassment_reporting > > Instead we now have the English Wikipedia's Arbcom taking on their third or > fourth sexual harassment within the year, without having even established a > working definition of what it is. > > On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 12:06 AM, Neotarf <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Totally understandable. I too have also been sexually harassed and > > doxxed, on at least two other sites besides WP. The ArbCom and the WMF > are > > well aware of it, and have been unwilling to lift a finger against it. > > > > There is a book about cyber harassment making the rounds: "Hate Crimes in > > Cyberspace" by Danielle Keats Citron ISBN 978-0-674-36829-3 describing > both > > the horrible price that individuals pay and the legal underpinnings of > the > > problem. It's a pity WP is not in the vanguard of this movement in the > same > > way it has pioneered in other areas. Instead, those who report > harassment > > will find themselves treated worse than the harassers. > > > > On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 9:49 PM, Carol Moore dc < > [email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> On 5/26/2015 8:35 PM, LB wrote: > >> > >>> Due to off-wiki harassment, I have retired. Thank you to those of you > >>> who have been friendly with me over the past year. > >>> > >>> Lightbreather > >>> > >>> > >>> Plus all that on-wiki harassment! > >> > >> I did notice something interesting and actually positive in > >> Lightbreather's arbitration, compared to GGTF and others I've seen. > >> > >> Which is that now editors only can comment on Arbitration talk pages in > >> their own sections. This lessens opportunities for drive-by harassing > >> taunts against, and replies against, various editors who harassers are > >> trying to get kicked off Wikipedia. They have to take responsibility in > >> their own sections. Perhaps my screaming about "institutionalized > >> harassment at Arbcom" had at least this minor effect... I hope they > keep > >> it for all future arbitrations... > >> > >> Announcement on this page, after which went into effect. > >> > >> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Lightbreather/Evidence#Sectioned_discussion_is_now_in_effect_on_this_page > >> > >> Also in effect here. > >> > >> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Lightbreather/Workshop > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Gendergap mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please > >> visit: > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap > >> > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/gendergap/attachments/20150527/f2f2ecb6/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 00:43:11 -0400 > From: Risker <[email protected]> > To: "Addressing gender equity and exploring ways to increase the > participation of women within Wikimedia projects." > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Retired > Message-ID: > < > capxs8yqja4qf0_r5q3dftwne9+e-v+nbz2dbcpkdhztyyza...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > There is a tendency to ascribe a great deal of power to the Arbitration > Committee of English Wikipedia - and of the various arbitration committees, > it is the one with the greatest scope and perceived power. In fact, Arbcom > has almost no ability to manage the world outside of the pages of the > Wikipedia project, and even within the project it can only handle minuscule > portions of the activities. It has no power at all to control other > websites, can only take action against Wikipedians acting outside of the > project if there is an extremely clear and direct link between the > Wikipedia persona and the persona outside of WP, and is very wary of taking > action in the absence of direct links because many if not most arbitrators > and functionaries over the last 8-10 years have been the subject of > joe-jobs themselves. I've had to have three separate LinkedIn accounts > purporting to be me taken down over the last 8 years, for example; others > have had their personal images and names attached to accounts on porn > sites, paid editing sites, and a fair number of other unsavory sites - so > as a group we can honestly say "there's plenty of reason to doubt" in a lot > of cases. > > Arbcom is not all-powerful. Even the full force of the WMF can only be > turned on to the most extreme cases of harassment; there simply aren't the > human resources to address comparatively run-of-the-mill harassment, > especially when it's occurring outside the walls of their projects. Not > even huge internet-based companies like Facebook, Twitter, or Yahoo have > the personnel or the ability to prevent or address harassment on unrelated > sites, and they have hundreds of times more "community managers" than the > WMF has. > > To compare to a non-internet situation: How many police officers would be > needed to effectively stop catcalls being directed to women walking down > the street? Or preventing bullies from picking on the skinny kid? > > We know the answer - there aren't enough cops in the world to stop these > things even in one medium-sized city. What needs to change is society's > attitude toward these activities - and because the internet isn't a single > society, the task is extremely difficult. The WMF isn't going to be able > to solve it, Arbcom doesn't have a hope of solving it, and as long as the > same privacy laws that prevent people from digging into deeply private > information about us also protect people whose behaviour is very much > unappreciated, I'm not sure the legal systems of most democratic countries > will be able to solve it. > > Risker/Anne > > On 27 May 2015 at 00:21, Neotarf <[email protected]> wrote: > > > This might also be a good time to mention the conversation about > > harassment on the recent Inspire grant project. Fourteen of the > proposals > > were concerned with managing harassment. I don't believe I ever saw > anyone > > from the Foundation comment on this. > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Community_discussion_on_harassment_reporting > > > > Instead we now have the English Wikipedia's Arbcom taking on their third > > or fourth sexual harassment within the year, without having even > > established a working definition of what it is. > > > > On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 12:06 AM, Neotarf <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Totally understandable. I too have also been sexually harassed and > >> doxxed, on at least two other sites besides WP. The ArbCom and the WMF > are > >> well aware of it, and have been unwilling to lift a finger against it. > >> > >> There is a book about cyber harassment making the rounds: "Hate Crimes > in > >> Cyberspace" by Danielle Keats Citron ISBN 978-0-674-36829-3 describing > both > >> the horrible price that individuals pay and the legal underpinnings of > the > >> problem. It's a pity WP is not in the vanguard of this movement in the > same > >> way it has pioneered in other areas. Instead, those who report > harassment > >> will find themselves treated worse than the harassers. > >> > >> On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 9:49 PM, Carol Moore dc < > [email protected] > >> > wrote: > >> > >>> On 5/26/2015 8:35 PM, LB wrote: > >>> > >>>> Due to off-wiki harassment, I have retired. Thank you to those of you > >>>> who have been friendly with me over the past year. > >>>> > >>>> Lightbreather > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Plus all that on-wiki harassment! > >>> > >>> I did notice something interesting and actually positive in > >>> Lightbreather's arbitration, compared to GGTF and others I've seen. > >>> > >>> Which is that now editors only can comment on Arbitration talk pages in > >>> their own sections. This lessens opportunities for drive-by harassing > >>> taunts against, and replies against, various editors who harassers are > >>> trying to get kicked off Wikipedia. They have to take responsibility > in > >>> their own sections. Perhaps my screaming about "institutionalized > >>> harassment at Arbcom" had at least this minor effect... I hope they > keep > >>> it for all future arbitrations... > >>> > >>> Announcement on this page, after which went into effect. > >>> > >>> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Lightbreather/Evidence#Sectioned_discussion_is_now_in_effect_on_this_page > >>> > >>> Also in effect here. > >>> > >>> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Lightbreather/Workshop > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Gendergap mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, > please > >>> visit: > >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap > >>> > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Gendergap mailing list > > [email protected] > > To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please > > visit: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/gendergap/attachments/20150527/8e452951/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 08:55:36 +0200 > From: Jane Darnell <[email protected]> > To: "Addressing gender equity and exploring ways to increase the > participation of women within Wikimedia projects." > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Retired > Message-ID: > <CAFVcA-EOG2nh3oZW=Qa=+ > [email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I wish you all the best, and thanks for your efforts! > > On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 2:35 AM, LB <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Due to off-wiki harassment, I have retired. Thank you to those of you who > > have been friendly with me over the past year. > > > > Lightbreather > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Gendergap mailing list > > [email protected] > > To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please > > visit: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/gendergap/attachments/20150527/cbc1452a/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Gendergap mailing list > [email protected] > To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please > visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap > > End of Gendergap Digest, Vol 52, Issue 11 > ***************************************** >
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