On Dec 19, 2003, at 8:01 AM, Ted Husted wrote:

Michael Davey wrote:
Jakarta is the *brand*. It defines itself. Jakarta brand development. A brand can give a unique identity and grouping to an otherwise disparate and commodity range of goods and services.

Apache is a brand too, and, IMHO, a much stronger brand than Jakarta.

Not to Java people. I agree w/ you that it should be, but "Apache Jakarta" serves just as well, just as "Apache Httpd" is a strong brand too :)

I believe Jakarta distracts people from the fact that everything we do here is on behalf of the Apache Software Foundation. We are not "Jakarta Committers", we are "Apache Committers". We use the Apache License, package our product for apache.org, check code into cvs.apache.org, and donate every line to the Apache Software Foundation.

I realize that there are people who have romantic notions about "Jakarta" and like to talk about preserving Jakarta for Jakarta's sake. But for the life of me, I can't see why. For me, it's always been about the codebase and its community.

Jakarta is also a community - while it may also be a "romantic notion", it is a fact. Denying that fact serves well the high-minded notion of "for the Foundation", but ignores the reality.

The ASF has seen the incredible growth of codebase, community and thus opportunity for participation in the projects like Jakarta, XML, WebServices, etc, all of which are larger umpbrella-like entities where like minded people can come together and work on whatever "scratches their itch" near and with others that also have the same interests.

Preserving those fostering communities is a "romantic notion" worth working for, and not at adds with the ASF or it's governance requirements. It generates an opportunity for new ideas and collaborations to take hold, and a place go grow and live until the project wants to be a TLP. Or doesn't. :)


P.S. And before you say "Incubator Project", the Incubator is by design not intended to be such an entity, but rather a mechanism to ensure health and accounting of IP and community of incoming codebases and projects, the protection of the ASF.

Geir Magnusson Jr                                   203-247-1713(m)

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