well we hope everyone is smart enough to use a mozilla-like browser instead of IE. because if you use IE your just asking for it. with regards to the linux/windows side of things my take is do what you please. im not gonna force anyone to do anything because as we know there alot of people who still dont know what they are doing in front of a computer. too bad we cant sue microsoft for directx and basically single handedly making it so that linux cant use it. sad. and quit replying to this message my inbox is full lol.
-------Original Message------- > From: "Mat Branyon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: this is just getting to be ridiculously long was RE: > [brlug-general] [Paul Ferris: RANT_MODE=1] This Christmas, gi ve the > gift that doesn't keep on taking ... > Sent: Dec 18 2004 00:24:43 > > The only thing I can add to this arguement is that my girlfriend runs > SuSE on her laptop (recently died) and desktop. She has no problems. > She uses photoshop 7 with crossoveroffice. > > She is by no means a computer geek, nor does she want to be. > She refuses to go back to windows. > > I use windows for games. > > Also, I use ubuntu, and everything works fine for me. The only time I > had problems was when I tried to upgrade and was using a debian > repository. So if I had just stuck with the default repository that > ubuntu gave me, I would never have a problem. > > As far as inserting a cd and installing drivers, thats nice and all, but > as far as I can tell, distros like SuSE have hardware detection, which > does it all for you. I didn't even have to insert a cd when I installed > a new sound card into my girlfriends computer. I just put it in and it > worked. So did the new video card. > > --mat > > John Hebert wrote: > > --- "Baudouin, Andrew" <<a href="[EMAIL PROTECTED]" target="_top" > style='text-decoration:underline'>[EMAIL PROTECTED]</a>> > > wrote: > > > >>I'd like to preface this reply by saying I use > >>Ubuntu Linux primarily, and I > >>have a Gentoo firewall and laptop. My wife uses > >>Windows XP Pro and refuses > >>to try Linux. I'm OK with this. > > > > > > Funny. My wife also uses WinXP Pro and refuses to try > > Linux. She was also a kickass VB and Access/SQL Server > > programmer. And we still talk to each other. > > > > > >>I am not a Windows fanboy, nor am I a Linux fanboy. > >>I simply feel the need > >>to be current on all computing technology so that I > >>can be competitive in > >>the job marketplace. For your information, my > >>current job is VB.Net > >>programming and my previous job was LAMP > >>programming. > > > > > > We are very much alike then. However, I am a C#.Net > > programmer. We laugh at you VB.NET programmers. ;) > > > > > >>It's as simple as creating limited user accounts, > >>installing the latest > >>patches, and optionally moving to > >>Firefox/Thunderbird. You don't have to > >>have a MCSE to understand that. > > > > > > I assume you read Scott's email. He made it clear that > > he chose to not support Windows-using relatives > > because he was simply more familiar with Linux/UNIX, > > and not because of some assumed religious zealotry. > > > > > >>>I think you are jumping to conclusions rather than > >>>asking questions and assessing all the information > >>>objectively. > >> > >>Linux geeks do that. It's clear that everyone here > >>does that. > > > > > > Humans do that. But that is no excuse to continue to > > do so when it is shown to lead to error. And you were > > in error to assume Scott's reasons for not supporting > > his Windows-using relatives. > > > > > >>>>MS Windows is great too, especially if you like > >>>>sharing your computer resources with others on > >> > >>the > >> > >>>>Internet. ;) > > > > > > BTW, Andrew, the above ^^^ was a _joke_. > > > > > >>Firefox on Windows doesn't support ActiveX. I am > >>giving that browser to > >>people to use now because of the crappiness of > >>IE...which I am not arguing > >>is superior in any way. > > > > > > Um, I'd like to point out that Microsoft's defense in > > the recently monopoly trial it went through was that > > IE was an essential _part_ of the Windows operating > > system. Ergo, by your admission, Windows is "crappy". > > :) > > > > > >>>So the solution to badly implemented local > >> > >>security is > >> > >>>to purchase more Microsoft software? > >> > >>They are going to buy Office anyway. > > > > > > Negative, more incorrect assumptions on your part. > > Very few of my Windows using relatives buy/use > > Microsoft Office. > > > > I own Windows XP Pro and I don't own and never will > > own Microsoft Office. Don't need it; Open Office and > > Thunderbird are perfect for my needs. My wife owns a > > copy as it came with her laptop. She hasn't felt an > > overwhelming urge to shell out more money for Office > > 2003. Granted, we are not typical home users, but I'll > > bet most home users do not own MS Office. > > > > > >>Why not use > >>the Outlook 2003 instead > >>of 2000/2002? > > > > > > $100 > > <a > href="http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?ref=froogle&pfp=froogle&product_code=306248&cm_ven=froogle&cm_cat=&cm_pla=&cm_ite=feed"; > target="_blank" > style='text-decoration:underline'>http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?ref=froogle&pfp=froogle&product_code=306248&cm_ven=froogle&cm_cat=&cm_pla=&cm_ite=feed</a> > > > > > >>Or even Mozilla Thunderbird for that > >>matter... > > > > > > For the Windows users I know, Thunderbird is fine and > > can do everything they need. Spam filtering included! > > For business users with an Exchange server, Outlook > > works great. Wish there was more effort to do iCal on > > open source mail servers, but then again, I am not > > contributing code to that effort. :P > > > > > >>Gambling, porn, and card gaming sites are untrusted. > >> These types of sites > >>are known to install spyware and untrusted > >>applications. It's simply a > >>fact! > > > > > > My goodness, you just love generalizations. > > > > You are either missing or ignoring my point. My point > > is that you are educating users not to go to certain > > sites because the browser/OS is not secure. > > > > Based on your logic, as long as a user does not go to > > a gambling, porn or card gaming site, they are safe > > from spyware? That's ignorant. There are other "types" > > of sites (gaming, anime, etc.) that are known to be > > vectors for spyware. And just because a site is of a > > certain "type" or not, it does not necessarily follow > > that it will be a vector or not a vector for spyware. > > ANY webserver can be a vector for spyware. Some merely > > have a decent business plan, and therefore do not have > > to rely on spyware for income. > > > > > >>These are methods to make sure a person can use > >>Windows securely. They > >>work. You might think them ridiculous, but they do. > > > > > > Those aren't security "methods". They are urban myths. > > And still ridiculous. However, I will give you points > > for recommending that users run Firefox. > > > > > >>>Linux users that run as root all of the time would > >>>have the same problems as > >>>a Windows user who runs with administrative > >>>privileges. > >> > >>>True, but irrelevant. > >> > >>How? Half to 90% of the Windows vulnerabilities > > > > > > Wow, impressive. Sounds like you did an in-depth study > > using RO statistical analysis. > > > > > >>would be ineffectual if the > >>user did not run with administrative privileges. I > >>see your fanboy colors > >>shining through. > > > > > > *sigh* I'd be pissed off, but it's Friday, and you are > > obviously just trying to piss me off. > > > > As Scott pointed out, anyone who runs as root to do > > trivial tasks deserve to be hax0rd. Linux/UNIX > > administrators have said this from day one. Microsoft, > > on the other hand, have only recently come to adopt > > this stance after learning hard lessons about > > security. > > > > The basic fact _is_, Andrew, is that Linux users > > _don't_ run as root. They know better. If some do, I > > am sure the number is statistically irrelevant, > > compared to those who run with admin privs on a > > Windows box. This is because the Linux/UNIX community > > have taken security much more seriously, for far > > longer than Microsoft has. > > > > > >>Beside the point, but Synaptic regularly crashes on > >>my Ubuntu machine and I > >>am forced to use apt-get install. > > > > > > Stop bitching and start submitting patches. > > > > > >>Wouldn't want my > >>mom to ever have to drop > >>to the command line to type in any commands to > >>install software. > > > > > > Good point. See above. > > > > > >>>Why pay $5 when you play card games on-line for > >> > >>free, > >> > >>>without installing software? > >> > >>><a href="http://www.solitairecentral.com/sol_web.html"; target="_blank" > style='text-decoration:underline'>http://www.solitairecentral.com/sol_web.html</a> > >> > >>Thanks. That doesn't even address my question. > > > > > > Then you missed the subtle point I was making. CD > > based software is on the way out; the web is in. And, > > that most home computer users only want to run a web > > browser, on a secure machine, connected to the > > Internet. > > > > Of course, I understand your point. It is easy for > > users to buy and install software for Microsoft > > Windows because the Windows desktop is ubiquitous, > > therefore there are lots of programs available for > > Windows. That's great, but is it worth it? > > > > I have a feeling that the trade between > > easy-to-install software with system security is not > > worth the security problems we are seeing with > > Microsoft Windows. Microsoft has simply chosen in the > > past to trade usability for security. I hope the > > situation changes, but they deserve much blame for > > making an insecure OS. > > > > > >>And > >>as for wine, how many of > >>your non geek family members, even those who use > >>Linux can set up a > >>successful wine install that will support all of > >>their directX/OPENGL games? > > > > > > You missed the smiley clearly denoting it was a JOKE. > > I would like to point out that Xandros not only comes > > with Wine installed, but the CrossOver Office plugin > > as well. > > > > > >>Can you install Nvidia's or ATI's closed source > >>(another strike against you > >>fanboys) > > > > > > Maybe we should start our own political party. > > > > > >>drivers from a CD? Can you click an > >>executable and have it both > >>compile and install your drivers and automagically > >>update your XF86Config-4 > >>or xorg.conf configuration files? No. > > > > > > Horrors! You got me! I give up and will go back to > > Windows immediately! > > > > Jeez, you know what the problem is? People like you > > bitching that Linux sucks and not doing a damn thing > > about it. Quit yer bitching and start coding already. > > It is _free_, fer chrissakes, it ain't perfect. It is > > a _group_ effort. There is no Linux, Inc. out there. > > > > > >>Until standards are developed and people can insert > >>a CD of their favorite > >>software or drivers and hit Next a few times to > >>install, I will never > >>recommend Linux to any of my family members. > > > > > > I'll bet you will now sleep much better at night, > > admitting that in a public forum. Maybe I should just > > start using an acronym: SBSC (Stop Bitching, Start > > Coding). > > > > > >>Sorry. All of the software for Linux requires > >>expertise using package > >>managers to install. There are no $5 CD's in > >>Walmart that run on Linux. > > > > > > FREE, fer chrissakes. > > > > > >>>"Linux market may grow to $35 billion by 2008" > >>><a href="http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6719248/"; target="_blank" > style='text-decoration:underline'>http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6719248/</a> > >> > >>Permit me to laugh at your choice of news sources > >>for that little tidbit.. > > > > > > Thanks. The irony of it is why I chose that particular > > URL, instead of the many other news sites reporting > > the same story. > > > > > >>You're a geek. You want free, open source software. > > > > > I do too, but until there is a standard free and > > > >>open source distribution of GNU/Linux where you > >>can go buy software off the shelf, insert the CD, > > >>and click a few buttons to install it is simply NOT > >>FOR NEWBIES. > > > > > > I understand what you are trying to say. And I will > > agree with you to a point: Linux is not easy to use > > for SOME people. > > > > But you misunderstand the nature of free software. > > Freedom means that the different distributions have to > > _compete_ with each other on their merits. Out of that > > competition will come technological innovation, which > > could lead to a widely used software package standard > > for Linux. Debian made a good early start with this > > effort, and the Linux Standards Base project > > (<a href="http://www.linuxbase.org/"; target="_blank" > style='text-decoration:underline'>http://www.linuxbase.org/</a>) is trying to > make what you > > want happen. > > > > I never said Linux was the best OS for complete > > newbies. In fact, I said that Windows and Linux both > > are great at some things, not so great at others. > > > > > >>I'm not arguing that point at all. It simply is an > >>easy to use alternative to Windows. Linux is NOT > >>EASY TO USE. > > > > > > That is merely your opinion. Others have already > > pointed out that Linux is good enough. And that's all > > that really matters. > > > > Andrew, I know you are an intelligent guy, but can we > > just agree to disagree here? Have you considered > > directing some of your energy to the LSB project and > > help to make Linux standards a reality? > > > > Yule Tidings! :) > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Dress up your holiday email, Hollywood style. Learn more. > > <a href="http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com"; target="_blank" > style='text-decoration:underline'>http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com</a> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > General mailing list > > <a href="[EMAIL PROTECTED]" target="_top" > style='text-decoration:underline'>[email protected]</a> > > <a href="http://brlug.net/mailman/listinfo/general_brlug.net"; > target="_blank" > style='text-decoration:underline'>http://brlug.net/mailman/listinfo/general_brlug.net</a> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > General mailing list > <a href="[EMAIL PROTECTED]" target="_top" > style='text-decoration:underline'>[email protected]</a> > <a href="http://brlug.net/mailman/listinfo/general_brlug.net"; > target="_blank" > style='text-decoration:underline'>http://brlug.net/mailman/listinfo/general_brlug.net</a> -------Original Message-------
