I'm not worried about a mentor that can't write a decent report. I want a podling that can write a decent report. I'm much more worried when the mentor can't prod the podling to write a report, and doesn't review it or sign it when they do. If the podling submits a poor report that is evidence enough that the mentors need a bit of education.
Ralph On Jan 10, 2012, at 2:26 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote: > It's not about blame, it's about tangible, recorded demonstrations of > oversight. As I said elsewhere we place no conditions on mentors > when they sign up to mentor a podling, and I think that is part > of the problem we face here. A podling will be able to report about > a poor report from a mentor easily enough, we don't need to police > each other all that much. We do need to start actively collaborating > tho, and we can't do that without ensuring there's actual participation. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Marcel Offermans <marcel.offerm...@luminis.nl> >> To: general@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer <joe_schae...@yahoo.com> >> Cc: >> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:21 PM >> Subject: Re: Small but otherwise happy podlings >> >> I see your point. I still think that if you read a "bad" report it >> does not matter who wrote it, in the end you can still blame the mentors >> because >> it's their responsibility. Who wrote it is not that relevant to me. >> >> On Jan 10, 2012, at 23:10 , Joe Schaefer wrote: >> >>> The thing is there is no way to tell whether or not a mentor is >>> even CAPABLE of writing a status report for a podling if the podling >>> is immediately tasked with doing so themselves. We are in the boat >>> we are in now because we have for too long assumed any member who >>> offered to mentor a podling was ready, able, and willing to do a decent >>> job of it. Without putting any feedback loops into the system for >>> determining whether mentors are performing their job well we will >>> never be able to move to a system that's both providing proper >> oversight >>> organizationally and distributing trust to the mentors who are providing >> it. >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Marcel Offermans <marcel.offerm...@luminis.nl> >>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org >>>> Cc: antel...@apache.org; Joe Schaefer <joe_schae...@yahoo.com> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:03 PM >>>> Subject: Re: Small but otherwise happy podlings >>>> >>>> Whilst I agree there is value in demonstrating a starting podling what >> a good >>>> report should look like by doing it for them, I also strongly believe >> in >>>> learning by doing, so I would still propose that a podling has a go at >> it >>>> themselves, before having a mentor step in. In the end, this is also a >> question >>>> of "mentoring style" and I think we should leave that up to >> the >>>> mentors and podlings. >>>> >>>> A mentor should be actively involved in the discussion about the report >> though, >>>> ensuring that the end result is good. >>>> >>>> Greetings, Marcel >>>> >>>> On Jan 10, 2012, at 22:52 , Joe Schaefer wrote: >>>> >>>>> I don't know about you, but in the podlings I mentor I am >> subscribed >>>>> to most if not all of the mailing lists and try to read the bulk of >>>>> it all. I could easily write status reports for them if it was my >>>>> responsibility to do so, and for the initial 6 months would prefer >>>>> that mentors showed their podlings and their fellow mentors what >> can >>>>> be done with a properreport before passing that duty along to the >> PPMC. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: ant elder <ant.el...@gmail.com> >>>>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org >>>>>> Cc: >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 4:47 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: Small but otherwise happy podlings >>>>>> >>>>>> I like the idea of mentors being expected to signoff on the >> wiki just >>>>>> to show that they are paying attention, but i also agree that >> it might >>>>>> be useful to have along with the poddling reports to have >> comments >>>>>> from the mentors. So how about doing both? Just extend the >> mentor >>>>>> signoff section to include comments so a poddling report is the >>>>>> poddling comments, mentor comments about whats going on and >> what >>>>>> they'd like to see the poddling doing in the next months >> and a >>>> signoff >>>>>> from all active mentors. >>>>>> >>>>>> Or Joe are you saying that we should scrap the poddling >> comments bit >>>>>> entirely? I think its useful to get a quick overview of whats >> going on >>>>>> and it gets them used to the TLP board report requirement. >>>>>> >>>>>> ...ant >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 6:27 PM, Joe Schaefer >>>> <joe_schae...@yahoo.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Lame. I would actually like to see mentors WRITING the >> reports >>>>>>> at least for the first 6 months to a year, then going to >> sign-off >>>>>>> on the wiki. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: William A. Rowe Jr. <wr...@rowe-clan.net> >>>>>>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org >>>>>>>> Cc: Upayavira <u...@odoko.co.uk> >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 9, 2012 1:23 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Small but otherwise happy podlings >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 1/9/2012 11:40 AM, Upayavira wrote: >>>>>>>>> Regarding attrition of mentors, it was discussed >> having >>>> mentors >>>>>>>> 'sign' >>>>>>>>> the board report for their podling. Could that be >> >>>> encouraged, and >>>>>> used >>>>>>>>> as a sign of minimum 'activity' for a >> mentor? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> How about simply sign off on podling-dev@? Even if it >> is >>>> "Thanks >>>>>> for >>>>>>>> drafting this! No edits from me." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: >>>> general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: >>>> general-h...@incubator.apache.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: >> general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: >> general-h...@incubator.apache.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: >> general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: >> general-h...@incubator.apache.org >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >>>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
