Hey Greg, On Feb 3, 2012, at 2:26 AM, Greg Stein wrote:
> Below is *precisely* my view on the matter. Bill annoys me sometimes > :-P, but I have to say that I'm in 100% concurrence with him w.r.t > thoughts/positioning below. I was in "sort of concurrence" as well. I think what you guys are proposing is that you want to keep the Incubator VP around to manage/oversee the implementation of my proposal to deconstruct the Incubator. Let's say for 6 months or something, while it's implemented. Is that fair? If that's the case, I'm +1 to keep the position around, and I'm +1 to fill the role and implement the proposal and be the person responsible for reporting out on it to the board. Cheers, Chris > > On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 12:25, William A. Rowe Jr. <wr...@rowe-clan.net> wrote: >> Wow... a post that was too long even for me :) We might want to break >> this down into a couple of distinct topic threads for simplicities sake. >> >> Anyways, just one commment; >> >> On 2/2/2012 10:56 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J) wrote: >>> >>> On Feb 1, 2012, at 6:38 PM, Greg Stein wrote: >>> >>>> I can easily see a small group of >>>> people maintaining that overall status and recommendation to graduate. >>>> I can see this group shepherding the initial incubating-TLP resolution >>>> to the Board. (a graduation resolution, if needed, could easily be >>>> handled by the TLP itself by graduation time) >>> >>> I can see what you and Bill are saying too and it's not a blocker for me, >>> but I'd urge you to consider the extra overhead that it would add, compared >>> to the benefit of simply saying, the incoming project is simply any other >>> ASF project, has the notion that those 3 ASF members that MUST be >>> on the incoming project's PMC as identified in their proposal. And that >>> those 3 ASF members could come from a collective set of what you guys >>> are saying is this special, reduced IPMC like entity. I'm guessing that >>> organically that's what would happen anyways. Only a small set of >>> ASF members will volunteer to be on these incoming projects and help >>> shepherd them in just the way it works today. >> >> You mention also "No need for the position anymore. Just another report to >> have to read as a board member, and someone to middle-man, when what the >> board ought to be doing is talking to the new project's VP, day 1." >> >> What I have tried to clearly state is; don't think of this VP as the >> middle man. Think of this VP as the expediter. The one who takes a whole >> stack of customs, duty, shipping and tarriff forms, and boils it down to >> "Fill this in, and we'll submit these things". >> >> This VP would not be in the middle. They would be on the sideline. If >> the mentors are entirely capable, perhaps ex-PMC chairs themselves, then >> marvelous. If they are PMC members who have never submitted a resolution >> in their lives, the VP is there to assist. >> >> The VP keeps the "files" on process. Not the lofty PMC Bylaws and Best >> Practices and Nurturing Your Community documents, but the cookie cutter >> "Your proposal should state" formal documentation. Think in terms of >> ASF Legal, or better yet, Trademarks. They don't stand 'over' any >> committee. They gather, define and communicate process. That is the >> role of VP, Project Incubation. Individual PMCs (even incubating PMCs) >> assume the *responsibility* for following those processes. Not a traffic >> cop, but a tourist guide. >> >> It seems outside of the remit of ComDev to deal with this aspect, just >> as it's outside the remit of ComDev to do the actual logistics of retiring >> to and caring for the projects in the Attic. Sure, ComDev will have some >> good 'getting started', 'how to' docs about both incubation and retirement. >> But they aren't the resolution wranglers charged with following up on the >> board's feedback. If a new incubating PMC resolution is broken, that VP >> would step in to guide the mentors and podling to fix their proposal before >> the board reconsiders it at a subsequent meeting. >> >> So yes, it is a necessary task the board is going to delegate out, whether >> it is framed as the IPMC, or the VP, Project incubation. It can't be left >> in a hundred different hands to drop. >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. Senior Computer Scientist NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
