On Nov 4, 2015 12:54 AM, "Justin Erenkrantz" <jus...@erenkrantz.com> wrote: > > I will just note that I disagree with adding bureaucracy like this.
It's not bureaucracy. It's suggesting a tool by which a mentor might measure a podling's progress. It answers the question "how can I tell if they're ready." It also gives a better-than-gut-feeling way to communicate to others that they're ready. When a project is recommended to the board for graduation, most of the time all we have to go on is a list of names and a vague description. It'd be nice to have more. But this isn't a requirement or policy. It's just a suggestion. > We already require podlings to submit reports as frequently as > monthly. (Geode somehow had to report monthly for no discernible > reason.) > > This further adds to the burden on being a mentor - probably to > something like being a teacher enforcing a pedagogical structure on > the podlings. I don't think that is what we should be striving for. > For the two podlings I currently mentor (Geode and HAWQ), I keep an > eye on the mailing lists and try to ensure that any process questions > that are raised are addressed. In the early days of Geode, there was > a bit of that - less so now as the community is finding its way. HAWQ > seems to be doing well - nothing surprising that I can tell so far. > > I believe in a "big tent" foundation - we should welcome new projects > of any stripe. If they fail within the Incubator to graduate, so be > it. But, that is separate from asking the mentors to somehow be > "responsible" for the podlings. I have an interest to see them > succeed, but if it doesn't, *shrug* and we move on. I don't see any > value in adding more bureaucracy as it will further sap any motivation > to truly "mentor" projects. I view the mentor as someone that can be > called upon, but doesn't necessarily require active involvement on a > daily basis. If I wanted that, I would be a committer to the project. > Let's not confuse the two. > > My $.02. -- justin > > On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 7:18 AM, Rich Bowen <rbo...@rcbowen.com> wrote: > > Fellow mentors, > > > > There was a conversation at ApacheCon about the Incubator. I'll leave it to > > the other participants to champion the particular parts that they are > > passionate about, but I was particularly concerned with mentor > > disengagement, and suggestions for improving it. > > > > A mentor's role is to help a project learn the ropes at the ASF, and that > > mentor might not necessarily be deeply versed in the particular technology > > that the podling works with. As such, it can frequently be the case that the > > mentor becomes disengaged from the daily conversation of the lists, and > > eventually with the entire process. > > > > As a means of refocusing the mentors' efforts, and keeping them engaged, I'd > > like to encourage each mentor (or group of mentors) to consider writing a > > running report (ie, evolving, updated every quarter) based on > > https://community.apache.org/apache-way/apache-project-maturity-model.html > > where they evaluate each point on the maturity model, as a path towards > > graduation. This gives a concrete target, and a lens through which to view > > the podling's progress towards that target. > > > > This could be kept in the incubator wiki, and linked from the official > > project report, or it could be maintained just for your own benefit. I think > > it would be particularly useful to attach to a graduation recommendation, as > > a sign that the recommendation is more than just checking the various boxes, > > but is a glowing endorsement of the project's readiness to be TLP. > > > > As a side-note, I'd also encourage mentors who are mentors in name only, and > > not reality, to consider cleaning up the paperwork by removing themselves > > from the roster. It doesn't look great when a podling can't get mentor > > signoff on their reports. > > > > -- > > Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen > > http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >
