OK. Before the vote, will work on making the initial contributors list as complete as possible.
What is the process for doing that? Do I simply make changes directly in the proposal? Do I make the changes public here before adding them to the proposal? Do I work directly with the mentors via e-mails to discuss and then after than make the changes? Thanks, Geertjan On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 10:02 AM, John D. Ament <johndam...@apache.org> wrote: > Hi Bertrand, > > Responses in line. > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 11:54 PM Bertrand Delacretaz < > bdelacre...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > Hi Geertjan, > > > > I won't have time to look at your whole message now, just a few > > clarifications as far as committers/PMC is concerned. > > > > On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Geertjan Wielenga < > > geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote: > > > ...Anyone on the list > > > will, once the proposal has been voted on and accepted, automatically > be > > > contributors to the Apache NetBeans project... > > > > They will be commiters to be precise. > > > > Agreed, the way I interpretted Geertjan is that Netbeans contributor == ASF > committer. They don't have the role of PMC/PPMC presently, so we'll see > how that evolves. > > > > > > > Anyone not on the list will > > > need to be voted in by the initial contributors, which is a process > that > > > could be fast, but is still a process and can be avoided by inclusion > in > > > the initial contributors list... > > > > It's a simple process, the incubating project could very well have one > vote > > for N people if that makes sense and they are all wanted. > > > > Its simple but hard. And no, I don't think we want bulk votes. What if > someone is +1 add Mark S and -1 add Bertrand D? At least when its come up > to the IPMC previously, we've recommended against it. > > > > > > > Everyone on the initial contributors list is > > > automatically part of the PMC. > > > > There's no PMC for an incubating project, just a PPMC as per > > http://incubator.apache.org/guides/ppmc.html > > > > That group has no formal power, only the Incubator PMC can vote on the > > podling's releases or make other decisions which are binding at the > > foundation level. > > > > In practice, you are correct that the PPMC is a PMC in training, but > really > > in a podling being a PPMC member doesn't make a difference IMO. > > > > It does. PPMC has one important job - vote on adding more people. We hope > that they will learn to look at their releases very carefully while under > incubation. > > > > > > > ...Anyone on the list when the project leaves > > > incubation gets write access to the project for the rest of their > life... > > > > That's correct, but there can be a difference between the committers and > > PMC members once the project graduates. As a mentor, when graduating I > > would not accept a PMC member who has not contributed during incubation > for > > example, whereas a committer that hasn't really been active during > > incubation is harmless. > > > > Committers don't have formal power once the project graduates, and if > they > > don't behave their commits rights can easily be suspended, temporarily or > > permanently. That very rarely happens, just mentioning it to clarify the > > risks. > > > > That's... odd to say the least. I'm not aware of any specific cases, > doesn't mean it hasn't' happened, but I can't think of any cases where it > has (other than one special case recently of someone being asked out of the > organization...) > > > > > > In summary, what you don't want in an Apache project is poisonous PMC > > members, so in my view to be on the PMC once graduating people will have > to > > demonstrate during incubation that they are making positive contributions > > to it - just being on the initial list of committers doesn't count > towards > > that, in my book. > > > > > ...If the above is accurate, we do need to work on the initial > > contributors > > > list prior to voting on the proposal, quite aside from the infra > > assessment... > > > > I still don't think that's required and should be avoided if it delays > the > > vote for NetBeans acceptance, as the list of committers can be modified > > during incubation with just a bit of additional work. > > > > I don't think this will add a lot of work. I even gave him the idea of > just generating a script of past committers based on commit history. > > > > > > If you still want do expand the list during incubation, best is to come > up > > with a list of additional names that the existing NetBeans community > feels > > deserve to be on that list (maybe based on votes on the existing NetBeans > > community's channels), and have the NetBeans mentors accept that new > list. > > > > Agreed 100%. If someone hasn't added anything in a while, has no interest > in developing more, and the community doesn't see much benefit, they > shouldn't be on the list. However, if that person does start contributing, > please pay close attention to see if they're interested in coming back. > > > > > > -Bertrand > > >
