> 3) You write how the topic of "what value does the ASF provide to my project" comes up quite frequently in the incubator. Unless already done, I would like to see this documented under some stable URL to point people to. Not only do I get this question to from time to time, it might also help other projects thinking about going to the ASF make an informed decision.
+1 As somebody just getting used to Apache I would find such a document interesting. Pe miercuri, 28 septembrie 2016, Isabel Drost-Fromm <isa...@apache.org> a scris: > > (again an explicit note for the mix of private and public mailing lists for > those hitting reply-to-all after reading the below) > > > Hi, > > I think we are talking cross-purposes here. Trying to summarize what I > believe > I'm hearing here, those actually involved, please correct if I'm totally > off. > > For starters, Roman, I understand how being labelled "not involved in the > Netbeans > proposal" is offending to you. I do think there are a few points that Jim > raised that truly are worrying though. In my opinion it makes sense to > focus > on these as opposed to discussing who is or isn't to "(git) praise" for > them. > > > On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 03:39:26PM -0700, Roman Shaposhnik wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 3:27 PM, Jim Jagielski <j...@jagunet.com > <javascript:;>> wrote: > > > To be clear: "Netbeans stakeholders" had serious and misleading > > > information about what Apache provided and it was only brought > > > out via some backchannel discussion with someone not involved > > > in the Netbeans proposal (from the Apache side) at all... > > For me this gets directly to the point: When I started being involved as > more > than a user at Apache one of the first principles I learnt was that > essentially > "anything that didn't happen on the mailing list didn't happen". > > If one of our projects (TLP, incubating, prospective) had a flawed > understanding > of what the ASF provides I would expect this discussion to be important > enough > to have it on some archived mailing list. > > > > I am actually offended by your categorization of me as the one who > > is "not involved in the Netbeans proposal (from the Apache side) at > all..." > > @Roman: If you step back and re-read the statement, maybe you can follow my > first intuition that this could actually be seen as praise to the person > who > brought this issue up despite not being officially affiliated/ involved > with > the Netbeans proposal. (@Jim, maybe I'm totally off here interpreting your > words > waaay too optimistically ;) ) > > > > Putting aside the amount of personal time I've spent on the phone, > > online, etc. trying to help this community calibrate their expectations > > about transition to ASF > > I remember that whenever someone at Mahout was talking about having a > discussion > on IRC, Hipchat, Hangouts, Slack, on the phone or whatever your favourite > sync communication tool was people popped up dragging the discussion (or at > least the decisions made during the discussion) back to our canonical form > of > communication which happened to be the public mailing list. > > Back there it was for several good reasons: People who weren't in the same > time > zone got a chance to chime into the discussion, people late to the > discussion - > even years late - could still participate, if the same discussion ever > came up > again we could refer people back to the archives instead of repeating > previous > wisdom. > > I believe those reasons are also valid for discussions happening around > projects > going through incubation (including as early as around the time of proposal > submission). On top I can see at least three more reasons why in the > incubator > we should err on the "put too much stuff on the mailing list instead of too > little" actually: > > 1) In essence the incubator is where we "teach" new incoming projects how > to > collaborate. If we agree that the "if it didn't happen on the mailing list > it > didn't happen" actually is a thing, I believe we should act as role models > for > that principle so new projects have good examples to follow. > > 2) Netbeans is a very publicly visible project. It has many downstream > users. > There already is quite some controversial discussions around it going > through > incubation outside the ASF. I believe this makes it even more important to > put > as much information around how the project together with us arrived at > certain > decisions out publicly. Not only for others to follow now, but also to > reference > back to in the future. > > 3) You write how the topic of "what value does the ASF provide to my > project" > comes up quite frequently in the incubator. Unless already done, I would > like to > see this documented under some stable URL to point people to. Not only do > I get > this question to from time to time, it might also help other projects > thinking > about going to the ASF make an informed decision. > > > Thanks for reading this far, hope you find the above helpful, > Isabel > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > <javascript:;> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > <javascript:;> > > -- --emi
