Hi all, Its been over a week since this thread was last active. I know its created some confusion within the IPMC now about the membership rules. Unless we can conclude this thread with a vote to change the process, I think we have to assume the old process remains in place.
John On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:57 PM Julian Feinauer < j.feina...@pragmaticminds.de> wrote: > Hi, > > I fully agree with Julian here. But we should beware not to start a witch > hunt about 'bad mentors' but develop an environment where one can step back > as mentor if priorities change or for other reasons are no longer able to > mentor. Everybody is a volunteer here so we should thank everybody for > their effort and not be 'mad' if they 'do not enough'. > > But on the other hand this should encourage mentors who can for whatever > reason not support their podlings enough to speak freely or look for others > to fill in their spots. > > JulianF > > > -------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht -------- > Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] Drop requirement that ASF members can join IPMC by > just asking > Von: Julian Hyde > An: general@incubator.apache.org > Cc: > > I agree with a lot of Dave Fisher's points. > > Some mentors will fail. Let's not waste effort trying to 'vet' them > beforehand; it's time-consuming and counter-productive. Let's instead > make it easier to detect when mentors fail (I think the "Have your > mentors been helpful?" question on podling reports helps with that, > but we need to do more), and let's try to increase the supply of > potential good mentors. That way, we'll end up with good mentors, and > we'll bring active new members into the Foundation. > > Julian > > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 10:40 AM Hao Chen <h...@apache.org> wrote: > > > > I founded some apache project and graduated to TLP, and also keep > > contributing to some other apache projects but almost in code, wonder to > > know how to volunteer as IPMC to help some incubator projects graduate in > > Apache way. > > > > Hao Chen > > > > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 7:43 AM Dave Fisher <wave4d...@comcast.net> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > > On Aug 13, 2019, at 2:39 AM, Justin Mclean <jus...@classsoftware.com > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > HI, > > > > > > > > I think there's a couple of misconceptions in this thread. First off > > > currently you can join the IPMC two ways by being an ASF member and > asking > > > to join, the other by being voted in. On average the people being > voted in > > > tend to not go missing, review releases and sign off board reports more > > > frequently. > > > > > > > > This has come up on list the list before and some (ex)board members > have > > > suggested that the IPMC shouldn’t;t allow people to be added this way. > > > > > > > > The suggestion here isn’t to be exclusionary, in fact we now allow > > > people who have experience in incubator to ask if they can join, as it > > > often hard for the IPMC to recognise merit, but they still need to be > voted > > > in. [1] When a project graduates I go though the PMC list and see if > there > > > are any likely IPMC candidates and contact them to see if they are > > > interested, you’ll notice that more people have been voted in in recent > > > times. In another thread I’ve gone one step further and suggested that > > > mentors look out for people on their projects list who are release > managers > > > and vote on releases and suggest they be voted in as IPMC members. [2] > > > (Option D). I agree the bar should be low. > > > > > > > > I do find it strange that we would allow people from a privileged > group > > > to auto join, when they possibly may not have shown merit and/or have > not > > > being involved in the incubator or an incubating project before. > Obviously > > > this doesn’t apply to all ASF members that ask join the incubator, but > I > > > can point to examples where this has given rise to serious issues. > We’ve > > > even had the occasional mentor who has never sent an email to their > > > podlings list, never voted on a release and never signed off a board > report. > > > > > > This is a different problem. I’ve seen nonmember mentors who were > voted in > > > who never really do anything. Let’s face it life intrudes in one way or > > > another. One hopes that such mentors will resign, but they usually fade > > > away. > > > > > > Let’s focus on service to podlings and try to replace mentors who for > > > whatever reason cannot help. > > > > > > Following through with your proposal creates an IPMC that is not fully > > > trusting the Membership. The membership of The ASF is the Foundation. > These > > > people have attained merit. > > > > > > > > > > > I don’t mind if their's not consensus on this and letting this stay. > > > There may be better ways to make sure mentors who sign up do their job > and > > > make mentors are more engaged. Please post your suggestions to this > list > > > for discussion. > > > > > > I reject the use of the verb “make” for this problem. We should “help” > > > mentors and podling communities “be” more engaged. We should “help” > > > podlings and mentors when Incubation is not working. > > > > > > Mentoring is voluntary. So is Membership. > > > > > > We need to have strong Champions who know how to bring willing and able > > > podlings and mentors into the Incubator. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Justin > > > > > > > > 1. > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/9ee3860bc9066ba682484542d34976ab21d9b62106f26a96f19d997f@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E > > > > 2. > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/8c6e12bb040856dddb5d9b7b4821739e441455f3c61c6e469eb98f81@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >
