It's a bit more than that. High end servers also often package an app
framework and a gaggle of guys who develop the application for you, if their
salesman can get far enough in the door. They either have their own
professional services divisions and/or partnerships with externals
(PriceWaterhouse Cooper, Accenture, IBM Global Services and the like) who
are "certified" on the app servers and the app frameworks. They also walk in
with OO methodology and project management consultants who can talk
six-sigma, ISO-9001, SEI-CMM and the rest of that. It's naive to believe
corporate managers (especially in the current economic environment) are
stupidly and wantonly spending money, but these other things really help
them feel safe about their investments.
On one recent gig where I was helping a company choose an app server, one
the deciding factors turned out to be the financial stability of the
vendors...
In the meantime some open source seems to be making its way into that world.
Broadvision embeds a modification of Tomcat as their web container, and all
the admin app is build on Struts. Someone from HP Bluestone once let slip to
me that they use Struts significantly.
The lesson I take from it all is that the web app as-such (and so much more
so the server gear chosen) is only a small part of a bigger picture. Not
that I think the gear and consulting I've seen come with these packages is
worth the money spent necessarilly, but the motivations I think are a lot
less about money than they are about due dilligence.
Cheers
T
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Layman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 5:52 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [OT] Servlets better for most companies!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sam Ruby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 10:14 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [OT] Servlets better for most companies!
>
>
> Kevin Burton wrote:
> >
> > It is totally illogical isn't it? The only only
> explanation is one my
> > grandfather put forth. They are all masochists!
>
> I have another theory. Warning: you won't like it.
>
> Try building jetspeed with turbine-3.
>
> EJB and JSP may suck, but if you use them, you don't have to
> rewrite your
> application every six months.
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
Here's another thought: (you probably won't like this one either)
they have people there to pretend to answer your support questions. When
someone buys one of these packages they usually get some form of support and
offers of training classes so that administrators and developers can sit in
a room for a week and be spoon fed instructions on how their package works
(which most people could learn from a manual in half the time).
That's the argument that I have to face every time I try and sell an
OSS package to a client or management - who will be there to help my
technicians/support staff/other developers? Who will teach them how to use
it? Most managers don't want to hear about a mailing list with hundreds or
thousands of subscribers, they want a company that they can blame and/or sue
if something goes terribly wrong. Software Vendors have done a great job of
implying that they are more liable than the OSS projects while getting
legislation (here in the US, maybe elsewhere) passed that makes their
liability just about equal.
I think that there needs to be more companies out there supporting
the OSS projects, and those that do it need to get more visibility in front
of the managers and vice presidents so that when someone suggests using them
they don't say "I've never heard of them"
Randy
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