On 11/3/03 23:40 "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> No I'm saying that projects which some committers are bound by Sun's
> NDAs and are on the specification commmittees do not
> have meritocratic consensus based communities.  The committers engaged
> in the legal agreement with sun cannot talk to the other
> committers about important decisions affecting the project and secondly
> the major decisions are made in the specification committee and
> not in the project itself.  Committers are promoted to the decision
> making process by an outside entity (sun) and not by their own community.
> The communication bonds twart collaboration which degrades innovation.

I am the official Apache representative for Servlet, and in my personal
experience it is quite difficult to voice some concerns I have on the
direction of the with the developer community of Jakarta, because, as you
said, I am not supposed to mention what goes on in the JSR lists in public
whilst over in Apache land I'm not supposed to keep something private.

> The JCP does not encourage innovative processes which Sun or
> the Spec lead might disagree with.

Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't... We have example swinging both
ways, the spec lead enforcing something on the JSR expert group, or in other
cases, the expert group driven by the community outside forcing something on
the spec lead...

Most of the times, in my experience, it all comes down to how "receptive"
the spec lead is in regards to new ideas coming from outside, and how much
"weight" he has in his company (the JSR sponsoring company)...

But my experience is too little to say what happens more often.

    Pier


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