On Dec 22, 2003, at 10:31 AM, Danny Angus wrote:

While closing out everyone else. Like those who are not yet committers.

I certainly think that increasing the size of the PMC makes it easier for
things to get discussed on the PMC list, but if people care (and you do for
one) about visibility the very nature of things mean that it won't happen
for long before someone starts to get obstreperous.

Just to save everyone the trip to dictionary.com :

obˇstrepˇerˇous    Pronunciation Key  (b-str p r- s,
         1.     Noisily and stubbornly defiant.
         2.     Aggressively boisterous.

I know from the past that you'd favour a fully open process, but we don't
have that. I don't think this should _necessarily_ be a social experiment,
in open management, this isn't a political project its about software.

No one wants things unnecessarily private. The less the better. The less organizational conversation the better -> more tech, more community.

This stuff is tiring :)



-- Andrew C. Oliver http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI

For Java and Excel, Got POI?

The views expressed in this email are those of the author and are almost
definitely not shared by the Apache Software Foundation, its board or its
general membership. In fact they probably most definitively disagree with
everything espoused in the above email.

From: "Geir Magnusson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 07:38:54 -0500
To: Jakarta General List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Just in case you're curious

On Dec 22, 2003, at 7:27 AM, Vic Cekvenich wrote:


<Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:>
... sensitive things should be on the PMC
 list, and non-sensitive things should be on the general@ list.
</end Geir >

What could be something that is sensteive in an open source community?
This is new direction. Gray areas should be well exposed. If you are
ashamed of it, don't do open source community.

There are lots of things. Committer votes, for example, are considered
a sensitive issue. Inter-personal disputes.

If you would have been fair with your attribution, you would have
included what I then said next, namely that I felt it sensitive

"because of the confusion that it sews.  My hope was for us to get our
act together before we approached the rest of the community, and do it
as a group."

IOW, simply to get a handle on how we approach the community to make
things clear and non-confusing.

For a developer ... lets have some code in open, and the bad code we will just have in a encrypted jar. Is this open source?

What do I mean by that:
ASF used(?) to be Libreterian: If you want code to do something,
commit the code to do it.

ASF used(?) to be run by commiters.
Now some are trying to develop "rulling" class, that is carving out
roles for itself and rules to legislate iteligence and integrity for
commiters, but does not committ itself?.
What happend to emritius commiters? People who did not CVS a chunk of
code in a while lose vote rights and their berucrat office.
The people that are vocal on berucracy are same people I wonder where
have they CVSed latelly.

Vic, if you've been paying ANY attention, you'd know that what we are trying to do is just the opposite - get *every* committer in Jakarta onto the PMC, *eliminating* this needless boundary.

Please re-read.


Geir Magnusson Jr                                   203-247-1713(m)

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Geir Magnusson Jr                                   203-247-1713(m)

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