On Dec 28, 2003, at 8:43 AM, Ted Husted wrote:

> * We need to put *all* the decision-markers on the PMC. At Jakarta,
> that means *all* the committers, and

No, it doesn't.  We need to put as many as possible, hopefully all, but
it's not required to be all.  We can also have people that aren't
committers on the PMC.

> * We need to insist that all subprojects file regular reports, with
> some statutory bullets to ensure everyone is still thinking about
> consensus and oversight.

Erm, I'm not so sure that this needs to be legislated like this.

> If anyone reading this message agrees, or disagrees, please respond to
> the "As it ever were" proposal  under another thread. Let's see if we
> can build a consensus and then create and maintain a solution that
> works.
> IMHO, the ASF Way *will* work if we let it; we've just never tried to
> let it.

I don't think that anyone is debating if the ASF works.  I think we all
know it does.  I think we disagree what the "ASF Way" is - I think it
simply requires inclusive participation on the PMC of those willing to
feel responsible for more than just the code they are working on,
namely project direction and oversight.  Thus, the PMC does not
necessarily mean forced 100% committer participation, although that
percentage is the goal, nor does it mandate strict reporting schedules
and reporting content and format.

I do believe that if we continue on the way already started - ensuring
CLAs, putting as many active Jakarta committers on the PMC as are
interested, educating them as to their oversight role, then we would be
in a much healthier position and able to then grapple with the
day-to-day PMC process.  Until we achieve the former, the latter is
somewhat of a intellectual game.  As you like to point out, we all are
adults working for the best interest of the organization.

Please work with us on this.


Geir Magnusson Jr                                   203-247-1713(m)

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