Hmmm.
On 6/7/07, Terrence Brannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am getting bored of studying J. Doing applied J via the alioth
benchmarks was fun, but I dont think it is cool to ask questions that
are covered in thorough introductory texts like "Learning J"
So here are my issues:
* I am not good enough to do anything practical with J
get better by practice.
* I am too bored to keep reading sterile teaching material
the reading material is not sterile: it is lean.
do all of the labs and then see how you _think_ differently.
it is hard work, just as shifting to APL is the first time.
if you have NOT done the APL shift J is two orders magnitude harder to shift
IF
you have already learned a braindead 3GL. such as JAVA or c++.
* I am concerned that J is not easily parallelizable. Otherwise, it
woops. sure it is. in fact it is INHERENT: it is ALREADY parallel.
more correctly, properly stated J coding
minimizes therbligs (look it up)
in such a way that those who think in 3GL serialized form do not see
that in such a manner the actuall limitations of properly specified code
has no roadblocks to STOP
parallelized running
OR partitioned acceleration
of the code that is specified
PLUS:
you automatically get decomposition in FFP form
you automatically get eigenstating via wave front optimization
(roughly, you can start on flow down the pipeline without having
to
finish all of the current "step implied by the functor:
data flow demand reduction is impicit)
and so forth.
BUT: only in properly stated coding.
This is hard to learn: you must find the _thinking_ modality
that you can see in the examples from Dr.KEI, EI, KI, RH, and EEMCD
among others.
BUT: your brain will burn, your head will hurt, and
when you start to see what J can do
...others may think you are talking gibberish
...because THEY will not see it either .. YET.
patience.
probably
would've taken first place from Cilk in the '98 ICFP contest.
* I can do whatever I need re: the web, data processing with Perl and
Python.
nope. though you may think you can
the names imply the languages underlying reality very well:
perl: it glitters and shines, not much else
python: if you do nor handle it carefully you will get restructured
forcibly
And most people on Planet Earth are doing so. And the most dollar
nope. they are following a dead end path.
bills are available in the most jobs in the most places on the earth
doing so.
feel free. so was cold bull for many years,
then PL/un,
and then (oh say can you ((really, really)) C
and the diseases it spawned: c++(--^^) and java*** (C++--^^ revved up
with JOLT).
*** if you want to know where Java lies in the hierarchy of programming
languages,
look up the 1943 US Marine Corps official chart of the Nine Stages of
Coffee.
you may feel fee for a while. but not very long.
because the next MS ABI is do (do) out RSN.
Anyway, here is why I like J:
* conciseness - this is the point above all points... who could ask
.
for more in
a language than getting the most done with the least effort? If a
fulcrum can lift a truck simply by being long enough, we have found
the fulcrum of computer programming in the APL-like languages, no?
* analogy to human language - nouns, verbs, gerunds, adverbs, N.B.,
copula
design intent.
* smart people use J: Dan Bron, Raul Miller, Roger Hui, etc.
smart people intended that.
* odd people use J: you meet some very unusual people in the mailing
list...
very different people.
(hiccup) 'Scuze me, I've been Taoing too much.
* Mysticism - I have a past interest in symbols which have underlying
meaning -
kabbalah, parables, hieroglyphics, cuneiform, crop circles, etc. J is
the most mystical and esoteric language out there.
Read Cajori HOMN. Probably _NOT_ so.
HOWEVER: in terms of our ancestors,
Qabbalah and mysticism are not one and the same.
Turns out in terms of semiotic systems based on wetware NNP
that the magical number 37 (Egyptian numerology) DOES have scientific
in their era Scios, Gnosis, and Lysis
basis:
37 on 60 is the Goldne Mean on the unit interval to the closest Integer
approximal.
Same thing for numerology and Qabbalah:
Meaning peeps around the corners.
Similarly for rhunology and the formation of character glyphs.
To summarize -
* Most people devote time and energy to perceivable payoff. Drupal is
the king
of website building for a long time to come. I dont need J for
that. Perl/Python have tons of libraries for data processing. I dont
need J for that. Java has tons of graphical and technical applications
(for example, I plan to use WEKA for Data Mining... sure the WEKA
source code could be 10% as large if it were written in J, but it is
not written in J and I dont have time/interest in translating it).
* Programming as a hobby is about to come to a grinding halt. I need
to find a
wife, meditation practice, outdoor activity or something. But after
work, you are not going to find me indoors in the dark with a computer
after spending 8 hours at work indoors in the dark with a computer.
if you fail to study J a s a tool for thinking about _Mathematics_
which a part of the design intent
you have missed the point.
try that. then see what you think about J.
cheers.
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